Cloning Alien Fiends

[AGAP]

Very emBEARassing but these wacky raelians are based in Quebec, Canada… I don’t believe they’ve cloned anything, they’re very good at getting publicity for zip though

raelian hx according to rick ross

Should be interesting to see some actual proof, it took over 250 tries to get a whole dolly, she has some accelerated aging related illness though so she’s not all that healthy The previous tries ended up with tons of defects…limbs missing, pieces of brain absent and various other horrifying genetic errors to horrifying for them to disclose Would hate to see what kind of mistakes alien labs would come up with trying to clone humans…

[FlyingCloud]

yeah, not cool at all, this kind of "science"

I think, they tried, yeah – and I don’t want to think about what came out so far, but not a real human

[Halfman]

I wonder, if in fact, this was true, will the repulsion anf fear associated with the act and its creator will create a new type of discrimination. I know this sounds like a kitsch response to this phenomena, but perhaps Stan Lee had something there. Besides, I can leave any true and revolutionary questions about this process for those striving to invent something new, something, more than human.

I disagree with you on this one FC, the clone is a real person. I think the cloud of newness and the distance we are apt to associate with this scientifc form of Modernism makes it easy to fall into the trap of indifference. It is especially alarming to think life-saving research and procedures are in danger, at least here in the USA, as a result of such views, let alone the misuse of the technology.

I cannot say I am in favor of making humans in a petri dish, but I am in favor of using the fruits of our labors, namely the Human Genome Project , to cure disease and discomfort, Sadly, I do not believe that aestheticism can remain attached to science in a guiding fashion for any one particular task at great length, as long as we have powermongers and folks who in the name of the ironic and the inventive, chose to create a gulf between the works of humans and humanity.

[Halfman]

I checked out the Ross link, Allison, thank you. Why can’t Rael just go ahead and defraud some savings and loans and help the economy some more? Geez, he is operating on much old premise for his philo. But, he is willing to prostitute his cult to antagonists for advancement. He has done some homework, realizing that any type of publiciity is better for funding than holding onto his beliefs in poverty. Maybe he is hoping that the confusion created by selling out vs. the offering of something novel will keeping sucking in confused masses looking for "the answers" and sexual gratification of otherworldy proportions.
Nick knack tally whacked.

[FlyingCloud]

"Halfman" wrote:

I disagree with you on this one FC, the clone is a real person. I think the cloud of newness and the distance we are apt to associate with this scientifc form of Modernism makes it easy to fall into the trap of indifference.

I was referring to the general public discussion "from when on is a human fetus a person & what if it’s that much malformed, that it hasn’t any chance to ever live?" Surely there are many of that kind of embryos on the way to cloning. And it’s a frightening high price.
On the other hand, if there’s once a living human clone, however, I wouldn’t deny that it’s human/ a person, don’t get me wrong. But I don’t believe, these scientists succeeded to, well, "create" anything to be called human, yet – that was my point.

But it’s also sure that there exists a big market for "optimiziation" of humankind by cloning, and therefore this science will be continued. I don’t cherish illusions here.

"Halfman" wrote:

… life-saving research and procedures are in danger, at least here in the USA, as a result of such views

… and, pardon, that’s one of their marketing arguments.

"deepsludge" wrote:

I think the whole computer revolution was an alien concept and a technology that found it’s way into very powerful people’s hands back in the 40’s and 50’s

.. but unfortunately they totally failed to "bring" us these nice ‘personal robots’, which anyone talks about since 50 years

[Halfman]

I hate running quotes so I will not. I am confused by the parts of aboutthe embryos being scary and then them not being human at all. I think I am missing something here, but this is a tricky deal, just like with the gigantic abortion controversy that has lasted decades in the U.S. It disgusts me that a person who has a differeing view from another is automatically judged to be "immoral" because they simply do not agree. Obviously, there are reams of legal and philsopihical documents that go way beyond such a trite statement, but they have not fixed anything as of yet, just gotten a lot of people killed in all ways

I am not saying that in your case, FC, but I think the "marketing" comment presumes I support what I argued against. Not so. I referred to another public arguement going on in the States that is threatening to lead to more expansive laws that would harness the ability to perform research, especially in genetics. I am sorry if you felt I was picking on you and if I took something you said out of context. I worried that would happen, but couldn’t say what I needed to say otherwise. I am sorry.

[FlyingCloud]

hey, definitely no offense intended!
& definitely no intention of labeling you or anyone as "immoral" –
if it was mistakable: just sorry!

[AGAP]

Those raelians are pretty out there, one thing they’re very good at is getting publicity…sickeningly good :slap: :aliensmile:

There are some great cloning projects out there, the cloning of stem cells is a huge step forward for science. Lots of good will come out of that, fingers crossed the good research does not get lumped in with the unethical testing of cloning techniques on humans. Like FC I am very frightened about just what will come out of this. Like I said, it took over 250 tries for dolly to come out somewhat healthy. Humans are just a bit more complex hate to see innocent children damaged in the race for the prize…the almighty dollar I don’t buy their line about life saving research, they are putting the lives of the children produced at risk for all kind of horrifying outcomes for the price of 200,000 us dollars. There are a couple more credible labs that are claiming production of human clones in the next couple months, fingers crossed everything turns out ok….will they really tell us if it doesn’t, somehow I doubt it. I’ll definitely be keeping my eye on the results of all so called human clones, the raelians promise proof, I think it will be the national enquirer kind of tabloid proof…

I want one of those personalized robots :aliensmile:

[fata morgana]

One observer, Dr. Phyllis Chesler, thinks that cloning (her words were outra-utero) might be of great advantage for women… Because now they will be able to access the male spheres of power and dominate more readily, more easily, alongside with their male counterparts… (I personally think this will never happen) Hey, we have designer cars, designer clothes, designer foods, hell, why not designer children!?! The rest has been so good for us so far!!! (Yuck…) I don’t know, maybe we can re-design animals, lands, and people that we’ve decimated out of existence–NO SWEAT!!! We’re all in control, here!! Hell, maybe in a couple of years, we’ll only be looking at ourselves–the human species–the Highest Order on our very own, our own earth that we own… (Or WHO owns???)

[Halfman]

Allison, what I meant by the life-saving research is again, not as some ploy, but as I said before, our legislators are threatening to curb any genetics research based on incidents of actual or possible misuse. It’s the old "all for one" suffers deal and that is my only point. If the slimebags moneygrub by using legal facts to buffet themselves that is unfortunate for us all. Like you, I am in favor of stem cell work done prudently.

Priss, I do not know of Dr. Chesler, but if she thinks a science experiement can overturn centuries of social, political and religious dsicrimination against’ womenn, she needs to put down the crackrocks.

P.s. saw your name on Codrescu’s site!

[everyonelovesjaron]

I believe humans have been cloned. Whether the Raelians have done it or not, I’m not certain. I have a feeling they have since they were forthcoming with DNA testing offers.

The more important question is why is the Raelian spokeswoman not more worried with orthodontia then cloning?

[Long Distance Drunk]

best religion ever.

[AGAP]

Hmmm, wonder what a certain LDD likes about the raelians

Halfman I agree that the legislators you are talking about seem to be looking for any excuse to limit the use of cloning of stem cells etc, such a shame as they hold so much promise

I believe there have been attempts to clone humans as well, just don’t believe the raelians have actually done it. Like I said there are a couple more "credible" labs/groups who may produce a human in the next couple of months. I really hope they monitor all this stuff well, these kids could face all kinds of horrifying outcomes from the untested genetic research being applied.

Will be interesting to see what kind of proof the raelians provide, they would have to provide access to both mother & child to obtain the samples by an independent source, versus them providing the samples themselves. Gotta love the bride of frankenstein like hair dye job the "chemist spokeswoman" has going on :aliensmile:

Allison

[fata morgana]

I’m sorry. I hope I didn’t misquote Dr. Chesler’s work. I think she was to posit on a futuristic outlook regarding ways that differed from present patriarchal order(s). Apparently, the "cloning" of this baby was done through parthenogenesis. This might be a hoax– but testing and other attemps by scientific sources are still going on (McGill University is building an entire wing for the study of Gnomes…) What I want to know is: what is this leading up to? As far as I know, women are still capable of having babies… Is this an advancement towards eugenics? Hasn’t this been the bane of our existence? :aliensmile:

[AGAP]

Gotta wonder about the advancement towards eugenics, seems its the ultimate in narcissism…get a copy of yourself

I missed this crossfire show, but found the transcript…

AIRS: Weeknights 7 p.m. ET / 4 p.m. PT

In the Crossfire

Rael defends claims of cloned baby
Friday, January 3, 2003 Posted: 2:25 PM EST (1925 GMT)

Rael: "A judge in Florida signed a paper saying that to protect the child, it has to be taken away from the mother. And I cannot understand why something like that should happen."

WASHINGTON (CNN) — Clonaid stunned the world last week by claiming that a woman had given birth to the first-ever cloned human being, a little girl the company is calling Eve.

Clonaid, founded by members of a sect called the Raelians, believes mankind was created by extraterrestrials. It says Eve will not undergo genetic testing to compare her DNA to her mother’s, which would prove or disprove Clonaid’s claim. Is the cloning legitimate or just a publicity stunt?

Rael, the spiritual leader of the Raelian movement, stepped into the "Crossfire" on Thursday with hosts Paul Begala and Robert Novak to defend his sect’s beliefs.

BEGALA: I do hope you’ll understand why we are skeptical. Let me read to you from your own organization’s Web site — the Raelian Web site. This is how they describe your organization. "On the 13th of December, 1973, French journalist Rael was contacted by a visitor from another planet, asked to establish an embassy to welcome these people back to Earth. The extraterrestrial was about 4 feet in height, had long dark hair, almond-shaped eyes, olive skin and exuded harmony and humor."

If, in fact, we are cloned from these folks, how come we’re not 4 feet tall with olive skin and exuding harmony and humor, sir?

RAEL: Yes, these people are not alien. They are the Elohim of the Bible. These extraterrestrial … came on the Earth a long time ago. And through DNA and genetic engineering, they did create life on Earth. If you check in the original Bible in Hebrew, you don’t have the word "God," but "Elohim." It means in Hebrew "those who came from the sky." And the Bible is the oldest atheist and godless book describing the creation of life on Earth by a very advanced civilization, the Elohim.

BEGALA: But why don’t we look like them? If we are cloned from them, why don’t we look like them?

RAEL: We look like them. They created us in their image, if that’s a question. And they send a lot of messengers. Moses and Ezekiel in the Bible describe contact with UFO and the Elohim, and Jesus, who was a son of one of them and a girl from the Earth.

NOVAK: Sir, I’d like to ask you some very practical, concrete questions. When you announced the cloning of the baby Eve, it was announced that she would be revealed in eight days. That would be, if my count is right, on Saturday. Will we see the baby on Saturday?

RAEL: I don’t think so because there was some very bad news two days ago. First of all, I want to be very clear. The cloning company and the Rael movement [are] completely separate. And the cloning company belongs to Dr. Brigitte Boisselier, who is a bishop in our organization, but it’s a private company. And the Raelian movement, our religious organization, is completely separate. There is no link, no investment. I don’t know where the laboratory is. I don’t know the name of the scientist. I don’t know the mother of the child. And I know absolutely nothing. We support her …

NOVAK: Tell us what the bad news was. You said you had some bad news a couple of days ago.

RAEL: Dr. Boisselier made a public announcement about that. The bad news two days ago was that a judge in Florida signed a paper saying that the baby Eve should be taken from the family, from her mother. And when I heard about that, Dr. Boisselier was about to start with [journalist] Michael Guillen [to set up] some DNA testing to prove [to] the world that it was true. And I called her immediately because to take away this poor baby from a mother just because she was cloned, I think this is completely crazy. I understand when you take away children because the mother or the family abuse a child or when there is violence, but just because she’s a clone?

So I called Dr. Boisselier, and I said, "If I was you, I would not test anything." Because like last year, when she was about to clone a baby already in America, her telephone was tapped by the [U.S. Food and Drug Administration]. And then they [found] the laboratory, and they ask the first customer to [shut down] the company. And I am sure they will do the same this time and find the baby.

NOVAK: So in other words, we will not see the baby or any evidence of the baby on Saturday, correct?

RAEL: A judge in Florida signed a paper saying that to protect the child, it has to be taken away from the mother. And I cannot understand why something like that should happen. And I think every family in America, if there is a healthy baby, even if it’s cloned with the mother, I don’t see why [they] would be separated.

BEGALA: But Rael, even if that’s the case, and if you produced her bodily, she would be taken into custody, why can’t you show evidence? Why can’t you show tests? Why can’t you show photographs? Why can’t you show videotape? Why can’t you show DNA evidence that would prove this? Because, you know, I’m telling you, you’re not persuading a lot of people so far.

RAEL: Maybe Dr. Boisselier will do that. She was about to do it with Michael Guillen, this journalist, and with an independent team, and I don’t know what she will do. Once again, she’s in Europe right now. I called her, and I said, "If there is any risk that this baby is taken away from the family, it’s better to lose your credibility. Don’t do the testing because what is important is the child and not to prove the world that you are right." And I think she agreed with me.

NOVAK: I just want to get your connection. You were the founder of the cloning company, were you not?

RAEL: At the beginning, I created a company that was [shut down] by the Bahamian government because it was just a P.O. Box and a Web site. … People were against cloning after Dolly the sheep was cloned. And so I created a seed company, if you like, to see the feasibility. And then the Bahamian government [shut down] the company because there was strong pressure from French government because, as you know, I am French.

There is a lot of religious persecution, not only against the Raelians, but against the Jehovah’s Witnesses [and] the Scientology church. There are terrible laws in France. And Dr. Boisselier herself lost her job in France because she was a member of our religion, and lost custody of a child. I cannot imagine that happening in America, and the judge [wrote] on the paper, because you are Raelian, we should take away your child. That’s France today, where you have no more freedom. And so the company was [shut down,] and then Dr. Boisselier created this private company to do it.

BEGALA: What else am I to conclude when you cannot offer any evidence of your claim — a rather outlandish claim that you’ve cloned a human baby — but that this is, in fact, just a publicity stunt, and a damn successful one, at that?

RAEL: You know, Dr. Boisselier, one more time, created a private company. And her reputation is at stake, and I think she will do everything she needs to make her company. She’s Raelian. If she was a Christian, you would not ask the pope. If she was a Jew, you would not ask her rabbi. I just support her psychologically, spiritually …

BEGALA: We’re asking for proof, sir, with all due respect. No matter what her religion or yours, we would ask for proof to back up a claim that you cloned a human being. And we’re just not going to get it, are we?

RAEL: I am, one more time, not involved in the company. I don’t know where is the laboratory. I don’t want to know where is the laboratory. I don’t want to know the scientists. This is her business. She will make a lot of money, I hope, with that. But we, as a religious organization, don’t want to be involved in any company. But we support her. Why do we support cloning? Because thanks to cloning, you will be able soon to give the world eternal life.

They have got tons of publicity out of this little scam, big surprise they’re pulling out of proving anything Think they’re up near the top in google searches When I start seeing guys wearing Raels hairstyle & oh so cool white outfits…I’m off to another planet :aliensmile:

Allison

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