Hi, everybody!

[Rosangela]

Thanks, Allison, I’ll check the sites that you indicated me as soon as possible; not much time, in fact. It was a big surprise when I read in this site, that J. was playing with Ron Asheton. J. always in good company…
Salamiguy, at least Canada gave us Neil Young! Did you mention 80’s heavy metal bands? I hate them all, except Whitesnake, I love David’s Coverdale’s voice and I’m always visiting his site, where fans have the opportunity to "talk" to him, he’s really a gentleman. And yeah, you’re sure about Allison,and I notice that everybody here seems to be good people.
I saw a Mike Watt’s video last weekend, the song is "Liberty Calls". Both, clip and song, are great. I don’t have this record. I only have one fIREHOSE and his CD solo with lots of people, like J., Eddie Veder, Flea… And some records that has his participation, like Porno for Pyros.
Hope to "see" you again soon,
Rosangela

[SG]

Ro Rock-Yeah,Canada gave us Neil Young,I`m glad for that.I`ve been a fan of his since I was 4,when I used to hear "Like A hurricane "on the radio.
My sister used to like Whitesnake,and problably still does.
Always cool to hear from you Rosangela;hope you liked the Iggy stuff that Allison helped you out with.

[everyonelovesjaron]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Another Girl Another Planet:
<STRONG>Hey elj,

Disagree that the total sales of a disc gives it the title of best alt anything except maybe the alt crap title. Just my opinion though, not something that comes into play in any of my decisions.

ps just messin with you…that BEARS/cryons deal… </STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, selling that many albums means to em that a fair portion of the population liked the album. If it then fits the other criteria (i.e. being an alt album) then I need to include it even though I disliek it because a disportionate precentage of the population did and may well vote for it. It’s called putting personal predjudices aside.

As for the Lions/Bears comment – I see you’ve read the 733+ FAQ for the site… [img]images/smiles/converted/biggrin.gif[/img]

[AGAP]

Hey elj,

Don’t want to repeat myself over and over but using that logic where would that put blink 182 and green day in your poll? Sorry its all crap to me no matter how much they sell, no personal prejudices aside. But only my opinion so like I said whatevers cool with you.

Yeah I read it,interesting spin on faq, liked halfmans idea of changing faq to fqa. Guess you figured out he’s also a BEARS fan, gotta love having another BEARS fan around here.

Allison:aliensmile;

[everyonelovesjaron]

I think Green Day’s Dookie is on my poll… if not, it should be.

Blink-182 – I guess I wasn’t aware they had sold that many records. I could justify putting Enema of the State on there, but with only 25 choices, it was kind of hard as to what to pick.

[Rosangela]

Yeah, I agree that lots of albums sold doesn’t mean anything, otherwise we should idolize Michael Jackson… My son is crazy about Alanis and she can sing but it’s not the kind of record that I’d buy. Thank God that everybody agrees about Bryan Adams…
Salamiguy, Neil Young is one of my idols, his voice is different, he plays guitar like anybody else does, his lyrics are great. In my time as a teenager, I used to listen only Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, but I had a boyfriend (RIP) who "teached" me a lot about music, and the only record that he gave me during his short life was "Rust Never Sleeps". I’ve been a fan since then.

[everyonelovesjaron]

I’m not saying idolize people who sell alot of records! [img]images/smiles/converted/biggrin.gif[/img]

Let me put it to you this way, if you’re making a poll where you want people to pick from 1 of 25 records, how do you select the 25? By finding records that fit the category, not by simply selecting your favorite 25.

Sales aren’t almighty, but they are a good indicator of what people like. I personally don’t like Alanis Morisette, but since I’m trying to give a rounded view of the 1990’s alt scene, I have to include things that I don’t particuarly care for. And if that means a record that sold alot makes the list, so be it. To disclude a record from a list because a) you don’t personally like it, and b) sales figures mean nothing to you, you are guilty of a) making a bad poll or b) being an indie elitest.

[AGAP]

Hey elj,

Who are you calling names jaron…indie elitist..easy to tag someone with that when you don’t agree with them. I think there are a few more reasons than you provided why people wouldn’t include some of those titles in a poll. So keep making your polls however you want, just won’t participate in polls that include those type of choices.

Allison [img]images/smiles/converted/aliensmile.gif[/img]

ps my last post on this topic.. [img]images/smiles/converted/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[SG]

Yeah but all we hear about is popular alt rock,there`s one college station here but the other stations don`t play indie rock or lesser know major label bands.The 2 video stations here play a ton of popular alt bands and very little indie bands.
All the kids know is popular alt bands because that`s all they know,there`s no outlet for underground bands to discover besides the college station or late night on the cbc,all this does is fuel bands the major labels want you to buy.I heard Slim Moon in an interview,he owns Kill Rock Stars records,he said that the majors would like you to think that all there is what`s popular.The few bands that don`t get recoginized but are on a major labels are small gambling chips for them,in case they are the next Nirvana,but 10 years since them,the next Nirvana is unlikely to happen;there`s more money to be made in electronic music these days.
I don`t hate major label bands,and if I was an indie elitist I would`nt be here,they think J sold out with Green Mind.No he did`nt!he never sold out if you ask me,if he did he would`nt have been in a van accident in Sweden,he would have been in a huge tour bus or a plane.

Ro Rock-Rust Never Sleeps is my favorite Neil album,great songs,"Thrasher" is one of the most beautiful songs about life ever written.

[Rosangela]

Well, it’s getting hotter! But don’t fight, please! It’s better to forget the polls and only listen to the music that touches our hearts. Beautiful, no? It’s like a vicious circle, industry makes people hear what industry wants, it feeds the "best-selling lists", people see the lists and buy these records…So, don’t worry about!
Salamiguy, I couldn’t say if "Rust Never Sleeps" is my favourite. Like Dinosaur’s records, my preferences change every day! For instance, some days ago I listened to "Broken Arrow" and I loved the way that guitars sound in this record.
I made a mistake, I meant that "Neil plays like nobody else does". Help, I need an English teacher!

[AGAP]

Hey RR,

Jaron and I disagree all the time, I get kinda nervous when we actually agree on something [img]images/smiles/converted/wink.gif[/img] I still enjoy reading some of his stuff and will continue to just not on the topic we discussed here. I really do like the guy, don’t worry elj its not in a Mrs Robinson kind of way [img]images/smiles/converted/blush.gif[/img] although the elitist tag thing was a bit over the top [img]images/smiles/converted/rolleyes.gif[/img]

I agree its a vicious circle of the industry providing the top so many bands and people buying what they feel they have to. Just think this site provides a good alternative to that kind of stuff, ie people who have experimented with different sounds sharing tips and suggestions to expand our musical experience. While I agree with Salamiguy about what people are exposed to I remember making a huge effort to find anything other than what was being forced down the publics throat. Thru fanzines, music papers and friends suggestions I found some great sounds, so think if people are rabid music fans like ourselves they search for sounds they enjoy versus accepting what is offered.

So thats my spiel [img]images/smiles/converted/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/converted/eek.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/converted/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Allison [img]images/smiles/converted/cwm12.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/converted/wink.gif[/img]

[everyonelovesjaron]

Allison, I wasn’t calling you personally an indie elitest, rather I was saying anyone who fit that criterion could constitute one.

All of you who disagree with me use the same line of reasoning: "…but it sucks!" Indeed it does. Morisette sucks. Limp Bizkit sucks. N’Sync sucks. Britney Spears sucks (quite literally).

The problem is, "sucks" is such an opinionated rating. Lots of people like Limp Bizkit, Spears, Morisette. That doesn’t mean I should like them – people have different opinions.

And that’s at the heart of why I feel sales figures are of some value when it comes to doing polls. I know what I like, and one can reasonably assume it will be represented in the poll, but what of others?

There is a possiblity that some precentage of my polling audience (the members of the freakscene board) may have liked the album. Math will tell you that. And so, I put aside personal predjudices and put selections such as Morisette on the poll – because they fit the criterion (alt album) and it was fairly popular to the general public.

Now, the issue at hand is whether what is popular to the mainstream alt audience (as opposed to a super 733+ indie crowd) will be popular to all indie/alt fans. Probably not entirely uy alluded to that in his querie . However, who am I to presume what they will like? This would once again be clouded by my personal like/dislike for artist/records.

Now you all see why polling is so difficult. We would have to spend literally hours rewritting the question, choices, taking samples to see what should be possible choices and so forth – more time and effort then this poster is will to spend.

So, in conclusion, polls are jaded, oh so jaded. I just choose to try and jade mine away from personal vendettas and towards populist thinking. Not a very indie/alt thing to do, but it’s just how I do it.

[God, I’d love to see what resident philosopher dimplefmoser has to say about this discussion.]

P.S. RoRock, don’t worry – you’ll know when it’s an actual fight instead of just a bull session. [img]images/smiles/converted/wink.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/converted/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/converted/smile.gif[/img]

[SG]

DID SOMEONE SAY BULLS!
I LOVE BULLS!
Jaron-you be Law Dog,I`ll be Locomotive Breath.
With the polls,I`ve been thinking,I think it`s better to let the person that made the poll put their own individual stamp on it by picking who they want,not of what someone else thinks,we can all create polls so we should just make the options of whoever we want.
The other option is cool because that lets the person who is turned off by the options make a choice.
I may not agree with your poll options,but it`s your poll and you should put in it who you want(with the OTHER option.)
Anyway lets like what we like and stop fighting about it.

Ro Rock-Neil has alot of good albums so it is hard to pick a favorite,Rust Never Sleeps is mine though but I like alot of his others.
Hey,your english is ok!better than some of the Brazilian bull riders I`ve seen.

[everyonelovesjaron]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by salamiguy:
<STRONG>
Jaron-you be Law Dog,I`ll be Locomotive Breath.

With the polls,I`ve been thinking,I think it`s better to let the person that made the poll put their own individual stamp on it by picking who they want,not of what someone else thinks,we can all create polls so we should just make the options of whoever we want.
The other option is cool because that lets the person who is turned off by the options make a choice.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, the "other" section kicks ass.

Locomotive breath? Are we becoming a Jethro Tull cover band? [img]images/smiles/converted/confused.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/converted/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/converted/tongue.gif[/img]

[SG]

Jaron,check out pbrnow.com and click on the data bases section on the left.type in the bull `s name-locomotive breath and click on his name and there`s a picture there of him.

[Author]

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