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So, I hope I don’t sound too stupid here, I’m a drummer (bare with me)
I wanted to get back into playing guitar, but I sold my guitar some years ago so I’m picking up a new one.
Now while I would love making dinosaur-esque music, I want to refrain and try to get a little more of my own style working. I been listening to a lot of shoegaze lately, primarily Sussurate by Ecstasy of St Teresa. And I really like the idea of having this complete wall of noise going on, but being able to still have a melody in it But I mean NOISY, like having your radio tuned to an in-between station and just having loud Static, but you can still hear that jangly guitar in the background (listen to thorn in y’r grip from that album to understand what I mean, it’s like Like beauty in a chaotic world ).
So, question 1. for making something like that, is it necessary to buy a $500+ guitar. Here we have a store which sells less then $100 "Misfit Guitars" which are usualy old 1970-1980 rip off guitars that look and probably sound awful, but I wouldn’t mind rocking one of these ugly beasts if I could work with it.
2nd question is Effects, what would you suggest for something like this. If I were to completely overdrive the sound, and then use a compressor on it, how much melody can I work with doing that. And I’f I’m just loading distortion like that, Should my guitar be up on the Highs with little bass to be able to play with melody? I used to have an Alesis X-Guitar which has an effect that when your would play a chord, The attack was slow, and the more chords you played, the more noisier it would be, Could anyone tell me what would make that effect?
And finnaly, is it possible to do this with only one guitarist in the band
Dude.
A cheap guitar is a waste of money, if you ask yours truly. When I first started playing, I had a Mex Strat, I reckoned it was great. Until, that is, I saved enuff to get a real, Deluxe Strat. The difference is unbelievable, not to be underestimated.
Wall of sound?? A cliche, what is now seems to mean is that music has all of the dynamic range removed, compressed until it is aural oatmeal. The greatest bands since the 70s (Sonic Youth, Dinosaur, Nirvana, Pixies) all retained a real sense of dynamics, and it is clear that J uses dynamics as a major part of his music.
Overdrive? Yeah, baby.
Fuzz? Bring it on, to the max.
Compression? As Elmer once said, be vewy vewy careful!!!
To create your wall of sound live you would need 2 guitarists, unless you follow J’s lead and play through 3 Marshall stacks. For recording purposes though you could create the sound by yourself by over dubbing the guitar tracks.
If you do go with a 2 guitar player set up I would suggest using the same distortion pedals, as you’ll really be able to dial in a killer wall of sound with nice tone.
you can cheap out on the guitar if you want but to get a proper ‘wall of sound’ thing going you really need large and/or multiple amps, plus multiple delay and/or reverb pedals. if you’re going for a shoegaze sound you’d probably be alright with cheaper multieffect devices as the digitalness would probably work for you. the trick to the wall of sound is delay.
Just get a single coil sized guitar, get reverb delay dist and overdrive pedals and turn them all on at once. good luck.
"Terrapin " wrote:Dude.A cheap guitar is a waste of money, if you ask yours truly. When I first started playing, I had a Mex Strat, I reckoned it was great. Until, that is, I saved enuff to get a real, Deluxe Strat. The difference is unbelievable, not to be underestimated.
I own a mexican strat and i love it . I also own a Japanese Jaguar and an Ibanez semi hollow art core. Which i run through a Vox Ac100
And i can say that Mexican strats are great guitars for the money. I have played many american strats(None of them have i ever felt that the extra would spent would be worth it) but then again maybe my mex is just a gem.
"Starlight " wrote:So, question 1. for making something like that, is it necessary to buy a $500+ guitar. Here we have a store which sells less then $100 "Misfit Guitars" which are usualy old 1970-1980 rip off guitars that look and probably sound awful, but I wouldn’t mind rocking one of these ugly beasts if I could work with it.Of course, you could work with it. But really, I wouldnt recommend it. Shit guitars are shit guitars, and you’d find yourself craving something better. I’m assuming modifiying guitars isn’t for you yet (I may be wrong), so unless you want to buy a shitty guitar and build it up, which costs a lot of cash, I’d recommend getting a kind of middle/low range but decent standard guitar, such as a mexican fender. don’t bother with big ass American Standards (unless you’ve got the cash of course), just get something workable, that you can buy and be content with for a while.
"Starlight " wrote:2nd question is Effects, what would you suggest for something like this. If I were to completely overdrive the sound, and then use a compressor on it, how much melody can I work with doing that. And I’f I’m just loading distortion like that, Should my guitar be up on the Highs with little bass to be able to play with melody? I used to have an Alesis X-Guitar which has an effect that when your would play a chord, The attack was slow, and the more chords you played, the more noisier it would be, Could anyone tell me what would make that effect?Work out what’s best for you. As the guy before said, the wall of sound thing is easier with 2 guitars, but it can be done with 1. but it needs a lot of gear. Good pedals include MXR Blue Box (nastiest, noisiest fuzz there is), Proco Rats (best distortion pedals in the world, in my opinion), and Electro Harmonix do excellent filters. I think what you’re also mentioning there would come under compression pedals? If so, watch your step. it’s like EQs, the amount of crappy compression pedals defies belief.
I use two amps and have different effects going to each. One is solid state one is tube. I think it gets the balance of attack and sweetness that I like. It’s cool to step on a phaser and hear it thur one amp and then step on the wah and use it like a manual phaser. Or setting off echo in one cab and pahsing in another.
I don’t think you need a great guitar. I think you need one that plays well and fits your sound. I have an Epi V and a squier ($85) that are aweome guiitars. I use them live. I am fortunate enough to be able to compare some of these guitars to some very high end and vintage stuff.
In a studio situation, you can hear a difference. In a live situation, get your yourself a cheapo, spend some money on a set up and don’t worry about it. The only people in the audience who notice are other idiot gear snob guitarists. Like me.
"Starlight " wrote:So, question 1. for making something like that, is it necessary to buy a $500+ guitar. Here we have a store which sells less then $100 "Misfit Guitars" which are usualy old 1970-1980 rip off guitars that look and probably sound awful, but I wouldn’t mind rocking one of these ugly beasts if I could work with it.
no. Better get a 500+ amp than a 500+ guitar. If you want shoegaze just get something with a tremolo and single coils or p90’s, for pedals, just get 2-4 fuzz pedals and have them all on at once. plugging your amp up to 12 is also important.
Good Lord……………
I do this constantly.
You DONT have to spend a ton of money on gear!!!! Get something to screw around on….this is PUNK people! You may want to buy either a two channel amp (that you can use one guitar into two channels at once ya know..) or buy two amps. Run one clean and one distorted. Throw whatever effects you want on it….reverb and delay are good ones. Honestly, it’s not hard and if you’re a drummer, you may not be looking into spending a few grand on gear for guitar. If you are, then buy one of the guitars you spoke of and a couple little cool amps and the rest on cables and pedals. All in all you could do this with only $500 if you wanted to. You would even STILL SOUND GOOD doing so.Punk rock gear snobs?!!? WTF? What are you people thinking?? Get a guitar and use it until it falls apart….then fix it…..it’s punk. I never saw the Sex Pistols or even J. Mascis use PRS’s or Ibanez etc….just deal with what you have. I leave the site for a little while and what the hell happens???
R/J
Yo, Randy Jane that comment was meant to be funny.Where ya’ been? But you can always tell who the guitar players are by who stands in front of you and looks at your pedals/gear. I am defintely guilty of gear gazing….
I’m guilty too man. Don’t take that the wrong way…I do that too. For a drummer to start again on guitar, I don’t think most people wanna spend a ton of money getting back into it. I need a bunch of drum gear (harware…cymbals, stands etc.) and I’m gonna be spending a bit to get my set back to the way it was. I had seven cymbals and either Gibraltar or Sonor stands…..plus the harware (tom mounts and such) and it was all…again…stolen. Second time, tired of it!
Back to the original topic, I’ve gotten a wall of sound on a couple practice amps and it sounded great. It’s all in how you think of things. You can go out and buy the gear that everyone says to get, but when you plug in….you could still suck….and sound horrible. Just because something sounds good to Ralph, doesnt mean it’s going to sound good to Stanley (get it…hahaha…Ralph….Stanley! Hahaha!).
R/J
P.S. FU….that comment was not intended for you btw.
I have been working on my cars (just got another Neon off of Ebay for $300) and have been dealing with my wife who just left and moved back to California…that hurts bad. Going through some junk, and it honestly almost overtook me and I almost died from it…couple times. I couldn’t see through it you know?But Im doing better now and am getting back into playing guitar more often than turning a wrench!
Oh, yeah….Wall of Sound! Good idea…..you got enough ideas yet?
My main guitar btw is a refinished/reliced (by me) Squire Strat that I paid $25 for. I’ve played an Eric Johnson Strat….LOVED it, but not as much as my Squire. I’ve been playing for almost 15 years now and I’ve yet to play a better guitar (for my hands). Cost is nothing…buy a guitar and make it feel like you want it to.
RST will tell you Im sure….a little work to a guitars structure goes a LONG way. Sanding the neck with 2000 grit paper…helps.R/J
That’s the point i was trying to drive home about set up. It won’t transform a $50 squier into a ’59 Les Paul. But it will make it playable and that’s the first hallmark of a great guitar. How easy/well does it play.
Sorry to hear about the personal stuff. It can’t rain all the time, you know what I mean.I’m a big advocate of those fender hot rods and 4×10’s. Cheap tube fury, takes pedals well.
"Randy Jane " wrote:Punk rock gear snobs?!!? WTF? What are you people thinking?? Get a guitar and use it until it falls apart….then fix it…..it’s punk.Preach on, brother!!!
I worry about any guitarist who equates low price with poor quality. There are some incredibly well-built guitars in the low price ranges. You just have to know what to look for, and how to change the things that don’t measure-up (which typically are tuners and pickups, and I would end up changing those on almost ANY guitar).
Now… amps… well, that’s another story. Most (notice I said most) good-sounding amps are a bit pricey… but that doesn’t mean stupidly pricey. Also, don’t confuse size with quality. You don’t need monsterous amps to produce HUGE sound.
You know… it happens to me at almost every show… the other bands have their half-stacks and PRS guitars, and they look at me like I’m crazy when I show up with my 1×12 combo and homemade guitars and pedals. Then they hear my soundcheck… and the next thing you know they are asking me what kind of amp it is, and what kind of pedals I use. Funny how quickly their opinions change.
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