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For the record: I have a copy and I’m not releasing it…I’m not having that on me. I’m just making a point on the state of the music industry today and how to better approach current issues.
I agree, and I will be buying the album anyway but you never know how much they might loose on album sales if it is widely spread. Us diehards here will buy it and go to shows but others may not.
Anyone want to help out a fellow fan. I know I don’t have many posts and I understand forum etiquette and all. I am a huge fan and can’t wait to hear the new album. Just throwing it out there. Any takers.
"Chicago_Fog" wrote:Looks like I’ve been on this forum about 8 years longer than you. And quite frankly your post sounds like you work for Jagjaguwar or something. In today’s age we need to face it that music is free. it is. It is going to be available for free whether you like it or not. The way to support the band is to show up at the shows, buy merch, blog positively about the band, etc. I know from the Beyond release my thoughts aren’t 100% shared on this forum but bands like NIN get it and are embracing the future. so to you sir, I say: I firmly disagree.
The best thing we could do is get this album out and into as many people’s hands as possible.
That type of buzz around a quality product is what is best in the long run for the health of Dinosaur jr and will generate the most $$ in the current dynamics of the record industry.
furthermore the album is done & ready so let’s enjoy it.I do think the band feels differently about this issue. From what I gather, one of the reasons they were unhappy with Fat Possum was because of how early, and widely, Beyond leaked. This time out, with Jagjaguwar, they’ve hired Web Sheriff to keep a lookout for leaks. Plenty of buzz can be generated with aggressive promotion, official releases of album tracks, etc. — all of which Jagjaguwar has done a great job with. If a band chooses to let their work be circulated for free, that’s their choice. But if they try to maintain some control over their work by actively working to prevent it being given away for free, then I think that should be respected.
"dgundlach" wrote:Anyone want to help out a fellow fan. I know I don’t have many posts and I understand forum etiquette and all. I am a huge fan and can’t wait to hear the new album. Just throwing it out there. Any takers.Pre-order it from Jagjaguwar and wait a few weeks for it to arrive.
"King Tubby" wrote:"dgundlach" wrote:Anyone want to help out a fellow fan. I know I don’t have many posts and I understand forum etiquette and all. I am a huge fan and can’t wait to hear the new album. Just throwing it out there. Any takers.Pre-order it from Jagjaguwar and wait a few weeks for it to arrive.
Brilliant advice!
For now, check out the previews that are available, full tracks on myspace and don’t be surprised if the full album is streaming somewhere VERY soon.Three weeks to go now, they’ll pass quickly enough. Actually, since I’m going to buy the album, it will be much more special to get my hands on it if I haven’t heard all the songs already… over and over.
"King Tubby" wrote:"Chicago_Fog" wrote:Looks like I’ve been on this forum about 8 years longer than you. And quite frankly your post sounds like you work for Jagjaguwar or something. In today’s age we need to face it that music is free. it is. It is going to be available for free whether you like it or not. The way to support the band is to show up at the shows, buy merch, blog positively about the band, etc. I know from the Beyond release my thoughts aren’t 100% shared on this forum but bands like NIN get it and are embracing the future. so to you sir, I say: I firmly disagree.
The best thing we could do is get this album out and into as many people’s hands as possible.
That type of buzz around a quality product is what is best in the long run for the health of Dinosaur jr and will generate the most $$ in the current dynamics of the record industry.
furthermore the album is done & ready so let’s enjoy it.I do think the band feels differently about this issue. From what I gather, one of the reasons they were unhappy with Fat Possum was because of how early, and widely, Beyond leaked. This time out, with Jagjaguwar, they’ve hired Web Sheriff to keep a lookout for leaks. Plenty of buzz can be generated with aggressive promotion, official releases of album tracks, etc. — all of which Jagjaguwar has done a great job with. If a band chooses to let their work be circulated for free, that’s their choice. But if they try to maintain some control over their work by actively working to prevent it being given away for free, then I think that should be respected.
What evidence do you have to back this up that the band were unhappy about Beyond leaks?
I think I have Farm earlier than I had Beyond?
Saying buzz can be generated "with aggressive promotion, official releases of album tracks, etc." is great. Sure you can get Coldplay toilet paper but who cares? Its a waste of money. This model is outdated and is no longer going to work.
People DO NOT pay for music so thinking these steps are going to make a difference is simply ignoring the current state of the music industry, which is in a violent transition period as everyone tries to figure out what the new model looks like.
I’m not claiming to have the answers all I’m doing is pointing out that clinging to this way of operating is a lost cause. The old model is dying and its time to accept it. Once that is done we can all start working on solutions. Rather than telling me about Web Sherriff it would be outstanding to propose some new ideas as to how we could make this a winwin for us all.One last thing: Web Sherriff? Are you serious? Talk about a joke.
"Chicago_Fog" wrote:People DO NOT pay for musicWrong. Many people pay for music — those who believe that, you know, musicians should be PAID for their work. Not everyone steals from musicians.
"Chicago_Fog" wrote:Rather then telling me about Web Sherrif it would be outstanding to propose some new ideas as to how we could make this a winwin for us all.OK, how about this? BUY the fucking record/cd and don’t upload it to free download sites. When you find a leak, send a note to the label so they can have it shut down.
There’s something to be said for not capitulating to the "music is free so why don’t I just go ahead and steal it like everyone else" model. Your position just amounts to plain laziness at best, and cynical theft at worst.
of course we do need to pay for CDs/downloads. otherwise the musicians cant’ survive and there will be no music. only big stars (=the hype) can survive solely by concerts, but only for a short period (as long as the hype is supported by the media). "free music" equals the end of independent/new music. on a second note, its cynical theft, as stated above. to demand, musicians should not be paid for their work, ts like in midle age, when the king hold a court of slaved artists to entertain him.
Not true. J has said that he makes all his money from live shows.
Quote:Me- What about Napster? What do you guys think about that issue?Mascis- Well my first feeling was whatever Metallica was against, I was for (laughs). But really, I’m all for it.
Watt- I’m for it.
Me- What about the arguement that it takes away from record sales?
Watt- I don’t make my money from album sales. I make my money from gigs. I think the songs on Napster are like flyers for the shows.
http://www.hootpage.com/hoot_fogintrvw010405.html”>http://www.hootpage.com/hoot_fogintrvw010405.html
hard to fully understand out of context, but indie musicians tend to make music from the shows. J says they recorded new music in the first place so theyd have new songs to play live. Not because they were short on cash.
"King Tubby" wrote:"Chicago_Fog" wrote:People DO NOT pay for musicWrong. Many people pay for music — those who believe that, you know, musicians should be PAID for their work. Not everyone steals from musicians.
"Chicago_Fog" wrote:Rather then telling me about Web Sherrif it would be outstanding to propose some new ideas as to how we could make this a winwin for us all.OK, how about this? BUY the fucking record/cd and don’t upload it to free download sites. When you find a leak, send a note to the label so they can have it shut down.
There’s something to be said for not capitulating to the "music is free so why don’t I just go ahead and steal it like everyone else" model. Your position just amounts to plain laziness at best, and cynical theft at worst.
Hey King Tubby news flash fatty, I am a musician, I produce and work for Koch RecordsBreak Silence Recordings.
You are clearly showing you are out of touch with your remarks. That’s okay I’m an old guy too and it took me awhile to wrap my mind around where we are. You’ll get there.
I can assure you that most musicians in the year 2009 are NOT making money off of record sales. Even if people like you buy a copy and feel all warm and fuzzy about how fucking righteous you are the artist will see literally 3 or 4 cents per song. The posts about the band making money off shows (and in our case Merch is a lifeblood) is where the business model is. And I am speaking as someone who works for a label and spends every working moment of my life knee deep in these exact issues. I’ll say it again your views are dated and since we started slinging insults: Naive at best.
Quote:Wrong. Many people pay for music — those who believe that, you know, musicians should be PAID for their work. Not everyone steals from musicians.If you need proof of how grossly innacurate this, look into Saul Williams release that Reznor produced. Less than 18 percent paid for the album when it cost 5 dollars, was produced by one of the biggest and most respected names in the music industry and targeted at a very loyal fan base also knowing the money would go right into the artist pocket. LESS THAN 18%. He still sold more records and made more money than he would have with a "tradional label" too.
So that would without question put you in a clear minority. Especially when you take away the variables mentioned about above and point someone to Target or Itunes to make their purchase. This is one example, I can repeat these results time and time again. There is an entire generation that thinks music is free because technology has made it so. Rather than getting pissy about a leak wrap your mind around where we are today. The best thing you can do to truly help your favorite band is NOT buying a CD but by generating a buzz (not with $$ marketing) and getting people out to shows and the main thing I (and most people) want in my arsenal to do this is music. Get people to shows, get the music out and stop worrying about us musicians when you buy our CDs it does very little for most of us. Again, welcome to where we are in the industry.
P.S One more point that dials in on how clueless you are No torrent has EVER been removed EVER from the Pirate Bay. So "reporting it to the label to have it shut down" is a process that does not work or really even exist. Look into it.
"weezerfreak942" wrote:Not true. J has said that he makes all his money from live shows.Quote:Me- What about Napster? What do you guys think about that issue?Mascis- Well my first feeling was whatever Metallica was against, I was for (laughs). But really, I’m all for it.
Watt- I’m for it.
Me- What about the arguement that it takes away from record sales?
Watt- I don’t make my money from album sales. I make my money from gigs. I think the songs on Napster are like flyers for the shows.
http://www.hootpage.com/hoot_fogintrvw010405.html”>http://www.hootpage.com/hoot_fogintrvw010405.html
hard to fully understand out of context, but indie musicians tend to make music from the shows. J says they recorded new music in the first place so theyd have new songs to play live. Not because they were short on cash.
Great point and you are 100% correct!
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