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"Chicago_Fog" wrote:Quote:Wrong. Many people pay for music — those who believe that, you know, musicians should be PAID for their work. Not everyone steals from musicians.
If you need proof of how grossly innacurate this, look into Saul Williams release that Reznor produced. Less than 18 percent paid for the album when it cost 5 dollars, was produced by one of the biggest and most respected names in the music industry and targeted at a very loyal fan base also knowing the money would go right into the artist pocket. LESS THAN 18%. He still sold more records and made more money than he would have with a "tradional label" too.
So that would without question put you in a clear minority. Especially when you take away the variables mentioned about above and point someone to Target or Itunes to make their purchase. This is one example, I can repeat these results time and time again. There is an entire generation that thinks music is free because technology has made it so. Rather than getting pissy about a leak wrap your mind around where we are today. The best thing you can do to truly help your favorite band is NOT buying a CD but by generating a buzz (not with $$ marketing) and getting people out to shows and the main thing I (and most people) want in my arsenal to do this is music. Get people to shows, get the music out and stop worrying about us musicians when you buy our CDs it does very little for most of us. Again, welcome to where we are in the industry.
P.S One more point that dials in on how clueless you are No torrent has EVER been removed EVER from the Pirate Bay. So "reporting it to the label to have it shut down" is a process that does not work or really even exist. Look into it.
My take on illegal downloads is that I wouldn’t walk into Walmart and steal a CD off the shelf so why would I download the music for free illegally? It’s not about the bands making money or not it’s about the fact that you’re STEALING.
I realize everyone does it, it’s harder to get caught, etc. but to me there’s no difference. Don’t mean to sound like mom or dad here, it’s just the way I see the issue.
As an example to all of you I have a copy of Farm but also just put my preorder in for the deluxe album. I think its worth paying $15 for the artwork, a poster, a couple of downloads and 4 extra songs. I do agree that once music is out there the biz needs to come up with a better system but untill then offer something worth while like the packaging on a tool album with the 3D glasses or the extras that Dino are offering and I will buy it. And the cd definately sounded better of Beyond than the leak I had and I am hoping the Farm cd is a little more mastered than the version I have heard. Heck I think they are going to put it all streaming on myspace soon and it is easy as could be to rip things off of myspace. So we are talking about technology and legality not music.
I’m disappointed that none of you mentioned that the leak was a poor 128kbps rip. I think I’ll wait for a better rip or for the album to get released.
"CrookedRain" wrote:I’m disappointed that none of you mentioned that the leak was a poor 128kbps rip. I think I’ll wait for a better rip or for the album to get released.you forgot to take into account it’s not meant as the final version of the album for us -_- it’s enough to get a peek at the songs, to ease the anxiety. we’re all buying the thing when it comes out…
"CrookedRain" wrote:I’m disappointed that none of you mentioned that the leak was a poor 128kbps rip. I think I’ll wait for a better rip or for the album to get released.I was disapointed with the artwork on Without A Sound and hand it Over, but I’m over it now. As far as the leak, I was just happy to hear some new Dinosaur jr.
oh my god! where are you all getting this album from ??
i’ve searched soulseek for 3 days solid and nothing!
can anybody please do me a favour ? I’ve already pre-ordered the 2 cd version – i need to hear this album !
please
"andyfest" wrote:"Chicago_Fog" wrote:Quote:Wrong. Many people pay for music — those who believe that, you know, musicians should be PAID for their work. Not everyone steals from musicians.If you need proof of how grossly innacurate this, look into Saul Williams release that Reznor produced. Less than 18 percent paid for the album when it cost 5 dollars, was produced by one of the biggest and most respected names in the music industry and targeted at a very loyal fan base also knowing the money would go right into the artist pocket. LESS THAN 18%. He still sold more records and made more money than he would have with a "tradional label" too.
So that would without question put you in a clear minority. Especially when you take away the variables mentioned about above and point someone to Target or Itunes to make their purchase. This is one example, I can repeat these results time and time again. There is an entire generation that thinks music is free because technology has made it so. Rather than getting pissy about a leak wrap your mind around where we are today. The best thing you can do to truly help your favorite band is NOT buying a CD but by generating a buzz (not with $$ marketing) and getting people out to shows and the main thing I (and most people) want in my arsenal to do this is music. Get people to shows, get the music out and stop worrying about us musicians when you buy our CDs it does very little for most of us. Again, welcome to where we are in the industry.
P.S One more point that dials in on how clueless you are No torrent has EVER been removed EVER from the Pirate Bay. So "reporting it to the label to have it shut down" is a process that does not work or really even exist. Look into it.
My take on illegal downloads is that I wouldn’t walk into Walmart and steal a CD off the shelf so why would I download the music for free illegally? It’s not about the bands making money or not it’s about the fact that you’re STEALING.
I realize everyone does it, it’s harder to get caught, etc. but to me there’s no difference. Don’t mean to sound like mom or dad here, it’s just the way I see the issue.
My example is a situation where the album is FREE with an option to purchase. No one is talking about theft in this case.
"andyfest" wrote:"Chicago_Fog" wrote:Quote:Wrong. Many people pay for music — those who believe that, you know, musicians should be PAID for their work. Not everyone steals from musicians.If you need proof of how grossly innacurate this, look into Saul Williams release that Reznor produced. Less than 18 percent paid for the album when it cost 5 dollars, was produced by one of the biggest and most respected names in the music industry and targeted at a very loyal fan base also knowing the money would go right into the artist pocket. LESS THAN 18%. He still sold more records and made more money than he would have with a "tradional label" too.
So that would without question put you in a clear minority. Especially when you take away the variables mentioned about above and point someone to Target or Itunes to make their purchase. This is one example, I can repeat these results time and time again. There is an entire generation that thinks music is free because technology has made it so. Rather than getting pissy about a leak wrap your mind around where we are today. The best thing you can do to truly help your favorite band is NOT buying a CD but by generating a buzz (not with $$ marketing) and getting people out to shows and the main thing I (and most people) want in my arsenal to do this is music. Get people to shows, get the music out and stop worrying about us musicians when you buy our CDs it does very little for most of us. Again, welcome to where we are in the industry.
P.S One more point that dials in on how clueless you are No torrent has EVER been removed EVER from the Pirate Bay. So "reporting it to the label to have it shut down" is a process that does not work or really even exist. Look into it.
My take on illegal downloads is that I wouldn’t walk into Walmart and steal a CD off the shelf so why would I download the music for free illegally? It’s not about the bands making money or not it’s about the fact that you’re STEALING.
I realize everyone does it, it’s harder to get caught, etc. but to me there’s no difference. Don’t mean to sound like mom or dad here, it’s just the way I see the issue.
I’m guilty of downloading illegally. I also speed on the expressway on occasion. They are both against the law, but I think I’m a pretty decent human being. I do end up buying every cd I download illegally. If something is out of print, I try to purchase it at a used record store or ebay. I have over 1,000 cds and 500 records in my collection. Many of those cd’s/records have been purchaased because I downloaded them illegally first.
It’s weird, downloading music is agaisnt the law, but charging someone $40 for an import cd with two bonus tracks isn’t a no no? I went to a Metallica/Guns- N -Roses concert in 1991 or 1992 and they wear asking $36 for a tee shirt! I’m not making excuses because downloading is stealing, but i think the greed of many involved in the music industry left many people against them.
I searched and searched for that Dino leak. I wasn’t disapointed with the recording quality of it, I was just thrilled to hear new Dinosaur Jr. I would’ve paid $100 for it. I buy ever single Dino item at the merch table I dont have when I go to their shows. Hell, I bought a Purple J Jazzmaster, and a silver pair of Nikes i would’ve never bought if they werent Dino. If someone thinks I did something wrong or I’m a bad person because I downloaded an album that I’m buying 4 copies of, I can live with it.
Totally agree with You Tom. I got like 6-700 CDs. If it wasn’t for downloading my collection maybe had been 2-300. I don’t buy everything I download, but everything that’s good enough to listen to more than 1 or 2 times.
"mind_glow" wrote:I don’t buy everything I download, but everything that’s good enough to listen to more than 1 or 2 times.Good call. If I download it, listen to it, and delete it, I don’t purchase it. Anything that I download and keep, I purchase.
Its awesome! Ok I know its wrong…..
But I’ve brought the CD, The 2x CD , The LP and the first 7", Plus a ticket to the gig on the 09th June and I will buy everything there I don’t have! -Is my justification a symptom of guilt,
However I do know that by downloading this I am also whoring the album for free to people who won’t buy it and I don’t think you can ascertain otherwise. I’ve read lots of hypothesis on this subject but fundumental its theft if you download for free without artist consent. The internet helps breed a sense of victmless acts and I could write about that all day….. However its a little/very boring and one for my mates when I’ve had a few to many & not for people who really should be talking about solo’s and big muff!
Hopefully not to long from now we will all pay a premium for entertainment like electric and this should hopefully spread the money(slighty) more evenly and back into the pockets of the artists.
Right I’m off to seek absolution.
This has been a spirited thread…..I don’t have time to do a lot of things with music….I have my favorite stuff but as far as new stuff….I’ve got a lot of new stuff that I haven’t paid for.
I bought two copies of Beyond gave one away lent the other out……..I don’t buy everything but I always tend to buy Dinosaur/Fog etc…I spent a lot of money on music when I was younger…used record stores and even threw lots of cash out at places like Tower……I’m not sure what to think about thr way things are done today as far as money and music. It’s all changing isn’t it? Most of the folks that I know who make and sell albums are not making money selling albums…they do make money touring. I don’t really know.
but I do like this quote:"asamford23" wrote:arrrrrr, matey, sail the seas, thar be pirates out there, and they have a copy of Farm.isn’t that the truth!!!!
I never buy stuff at shows….never have….. shirts and such. I had a preorder thing for Farm pop up on my Facebook this morning….I like to support the local record store but am I missing out by not preordering? Seems like some stuff has extras. That’s the ticket….. put in extra stuff that you can only get by buying the thing. A while back, I remeber J came to town…anyway the ticket was 10 bucks…my youngest daughter wanted to go see Hannah Montana Soooooo bad and even the bad seats were over 100 bucks. I did a lot of explaining to her about why I couldn’t support that (even if friends from school were going). I almost always buy extra tickets and give them to friends when J/Dinosaur/Fog come to town. For a few of us in town, it’s not hard to get into the 40 Watt for free but I feel like I’m doing service work for the band when I buy tickets to the shows. I just want more and more people to hear what it is that I hear when I listen to the music…to find the same groove as I do….that’s all. I hope I have spelled everything well and this makes sense because I have a four year old standing on my shoulders right now. Life can be hard at times.
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