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Right this is my second attempt at posting …
I don’t post much around here these days b/c it’s so frustrating it keeps signing me out and then I lose what I’ve written … AARRRGGGHHH
In a nutshell what I originally said was I’m really glad to see this post … The UK news is mainly concentrating on how good the Republicans are doing now …
America please vote for Obama !!
The world cannot endure another 4 years of Republicans … especially bible-beating, moose-shooting ones …
I think it’s going to be a real "blood letting" or in not so pretty terms "the busting of the boil"… on the stock market today. I think it was just the beginning yesterday. Time to put your money in coffee cans buried in the back yard.
I no longer have much of a nest egg left…..I’m frustrated (only because I wanted to get our money out two years ago, but listened to EXPERTS who called me an idiot.) However, I’m sure there are a lot of folks waking up this morning and instead of being frustrated they are throwing up what little breakfast they tried to put down.
AIG says it needs to borrow 75 Billion dollars Today…to stay afloat….unfortunately they have nothing to back up that loan, who’s gonna lend them 75 Billion?…….the Fed can "print up some money" and lend it to them…..but that’s not likely to happen., or is it?????? ING is going down, that’s AIG the largest insurance company IN THE WORLD.Oh, it’s only money, I mean for real, so worldly, so worldly, who needs money anyway……
I had to come back and change ing to aig, typing this morning while helping someone who didn’t do ALL of their homework, they got up this morning and suddenly remembered something, double ouch, ….however, ing is in the same stew….but aig is in the news….ing is actually intertwined with Lehmans, AiG and all the others, ouch.
F*ck, I can’t believe it, I can’t believe it………….going to bed, I just read on CNN that the Fed is bailing out AIG (notice how all the financial bail outs are being done on the weekends or at night) ………..bailing out, lending them
85 BILLION DOLLARS…………….I can’t believe it, I’m speechless (quite a feat for a Gemini) Where did our government get 85 Billion dollars to lend……………Where did they get it …… The fed created it…. OUT OF THIN AIR….. The world markets are going to start to realize that our money is worthless, there is nothing to back up that 85 Billion dollars, there is no collateral at all. By creating currency the government is saving wall streets ass but devaluing the dollar world wide, Oh dear God, Oh, my God, What the fudge……we are headed toward chaos…………We should have let AIG take the fall, we should have let the markets bleed today. We can’t keep holding this thing up for much longer.Ron Paul Speaks the truth…………over and over again. If anyone out there on Freakscene is truly interested in money….watch Ron Paul speak the truth. HERE HERE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaxdUPNYj2s XaxdUPNYj2s Oh, BTW, I was sent this video almost a year ago…… Lots of good information but at starting at 2:26 Ron Paul speaks the truth, lays it out for anyone who will listen to see. Why are folks so blind. House of cards…for real.
Oh, Terence Mckenna, thanks for reminding me….again…..
Our human nature makes it so we have to be pulled back and pulled back again until it sinks in….all the way. "Our side is winning"……words of wisdom brother! I was wondering why I’m not more anxious about the state in the world today about the huge amount of money of mine that’s been drained from my stocks, (geez I could have given the money to charity if I had know it was going to be going away so rapidly) money market accounts (needed to get it out to use it) and mutual funds (our children are probably going to become our new IRA) over the past few years , the speed of the approaching singularity. I’m actually more relaxed than usual….praise the Lord I saw the light….I guess. OUR SIDE IS WINNING. That’s it!!!!!!!!!!!!! (lots of laughter here) but hey it’s the truth.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iFpw0uIkbo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iFpw0uI … re=related
You know how much I love tears of laughter….I was sent this today and I’m crying tears…..oh my Gosh, I love this guy Max Keiser….I could stand to see his commentary each day. I mean commentators in America just can’t speak like this………. Some of my favorite lines from this bit of video….calling Hank Paulson (us secretary of treasury) an insane colonel Kurtz and saying we need to send some sort of Martin Sheen character up the river to assassinate him……….OH….rolling on the floor, lol………..I mean, we could never allow folks to say such a thing on tv here in the states…but oh, how he goes on. He starts to show what the American dollar will be worth and he pulls out of roll of toilet paper and starts pulling off squares handing out 20’s, 50’s….saying "here you can have all you want" all with a straight face. I love it, dude you and your pinstripe suit are so freaking funny, funny in a good way……controlled demolition of the economy. Hey, if you know your history than nothing is surprising…..The last time we had so many years of a bear market and a huge housing bubble with folks carrying credit out the wazooo, unregulated lenders, unbridled consumer fetishism ….as in "Oh, I need this for the house and this and this and this and this and look honey we need this….and this and this." it was the mid to late 1920’s. He even gets in a bit about the Republicans are against abortion because they need more consumers to keep the whole ponzi scheme going. Too funny, but most of it is true. For a good laugh about the economy, pass it on, it came to me from Colombia this afternoon, it’s a good one. Must ignore the first 38 seconds or so because they want to be interested in gold and silver purchase, ignore that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-F89sIDDVI H-F89sIDDVI
So happy to have the well, the firewood, the peaches, the pecans, the garden, Juan and I are building a chicken coop this weekend for eggs and sorry Robert, Maxini and all others (Murph from some interview we heard here) I’m so very happy to be well armed in this house. A 12 gage shotgun and a glock, I mean……I never plan to have to use them, just like the syrup of ipecac I have in the first aid kit………..probably never need it but takes a huge worry off my shoulders to know it’s there safely locked away in case of an emergency.Um, wow, what the fudge?
—-The hate factor—-
How come the “open minded” “liberals” wish they had bumper stickers that said “God [is dissatisfied] with Republicans”. Isn’t this just racism in another form? The definition of bigotry – a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance.
How can anyone consider themselves to be “open-minded” when they spew so much hate, and when they marginalize an entire group of people in this way? No offense, but this is where many democrats have it wrong, they HATE just the same as the groups they speak out against, the target is just different. Ultimately, everyone identifies with a group that promotes its own interests above another’s. True "liberalism" would be acceptance of another groups’ beliefs and needs, even if they are different from your own
What’s all this talk of giving? So, the poor donate all their time and effort to the needy and the rich don’t? This makes me laugh. If you make 30k a year, and I make 60k, I already contribute twice as much as you in taxes alone. Actually, it’s more, as the more you make, taxes increase. I’m sorry that your limited experiences have left you so jaded and bitter against those who are better off. But to say the “rich” don’t help society based on the few examples you’ve had exposure to makes me sad. There are plenty of “rich” people out there who donate their time, money, and effort to help those in less need. Please.
And what’s this about all republicans being religious? Is it possible that some republicans aren’t bible beaters? So, there aren’t any religious democrats in the world? What a highly informed and insightful statement.
It’s crap like this that made me want to quit identifying with the democratic party and go independent.
—-Healthcare—-
Health care – I don’t know what to say about healthcare except I agree it isn’t working. Is socialized healthcare the answer, I don’t know. To say it is the answer is foolish. Have you ever lived in a socialized system? What facts are you basing this own, your opinions? -Well people with socialized say they really like it.- Well, have they ever lived under our system? You’re comparing apples to oranges, but have you ever tried oranges?
I do find it interesting that you’re for socializing healthcare, but not socializing big businesses. It’s an interesting paradigm, more on that later.
So, why is healthcare so expensive in America? Why would it be any less if the feds ran it? Personally, it seems like every time the government gets its hands involved in something, the price goes up, not down. And whether you pay for it through your company, on your own, or through your increased taxes, you’re still going to have to pay for it. Nobody is going to pay for it for you.
And who’s to say that Uncle Sam won’t deny your treatment as well?
So why is healthcare so expensive? Ever seen the cars and homes most doctors own, maybe they should work for less money. But then, what’s the incentive to spend 8 years in college? How about lawsuits and malpractice suits? Doctors have to carry millions in insurance because some whacko can sue them into oblivion at the drop of a hat. Who pays for that?
And I agree, prescription drugs are outrageous, but why are they so expensive? Yes, I will agree, record profit is one reason. But once again, here in the U.S., drug companies have to spend years developing and researching and testing drugs due to the heavy regulation imposed the government. Wouldn’t it just be easier to remove all the restrictions in place? But even then, you have to worry about someone suing for 5 million because the drug gave them some extra lip hair. With big risk comes big reward. If our healthcare system is so poor, how come everyone keeps coming here to get in on it?
—-The President and the next president—-
Why does everyone keep blaming Bush for all of our problems? Maybe the dems should run with someone BETTER then this guy. Is this a democracy or a dictatorship? Don’t get me wrong, this guy sucks, but what about the senate and the house? To say that the president is the sole cause of all our problems is ridiculous. He is only one cog in the wheel that is in general a poor governing body. Maybe someday people can get it through their thick skulls that there are a whole lot of other elected officials that affect your quality of life on a day to day basis beyond the king, er, president. I do agree, it is time for change. Another 4 years of this is exactly what McCain will be, but I’m not sure Obama is the answer.
—-Burning gas—-
How come a barrel of gas is now 2/3 what it cost this summer, but we’re still paying 7/8 what it cost during the summer. Gas has come down from $150 to $90 a barrel, but a recent scan of neighborhood prices shows $4.00 gallons have come down to $3.50. Where’s the real crime?—-Squawking about the bailout—-
This is a very interesting situation indeed. First off, I don’t see what the big tiff is about government getting involved, based on the "wanting socialized healthcare" mentioned earlier. Using that healthcare logic, having the gov. get involved and regulating business should be a good thing. So which is it? Do you want a free society or do you want a gov. regulated one?
Personally, I think we should let these companies go under. They ran their businesses poorly, they bankrupted themselves, let them fall by the wayside so someone new can step in.
However, we have an interesting problem in that if we let companies fold left and right, we can go from a recession to a depression. So which is worse? Bailing companies out to preserve or future, or letting them go under because it’s the proper thing to do?
We’re not creating money out of thin air. You and every other American, all 300 million of us, are going to reach into our wallets and shell out about $2,200.00 if I did my math right. We’re not creating money out of thin air; we’re borrowing it from on the taxpayers. Besides it’s a loan, not a handout. It has to get paid back to the gov with interest. Oddly enough, we as taxpayers will probably never get reimbursed.
And as far as it weakening the dollar…that has actually gained some weight around the world recently. The dollar will be worthless if our economy collapses, not if we inject some more cash into it.
And as of yesterday, the bailout got voted down. Not by the king, er, president, but by all of our other elected officials. So now we have a situation where the type advisors are saying “look, we don’t like this any more then you do, but if we don’t do it, it’s only going to get worse when it could get better.” And what does congress do? They voted it down.
Wow, K7…where do I start.
You are saying…if I understand you correctly…and sometimes with the computer it’s hard. You are saying that by my using the word "dissatisfied"
I’m expressing HATE? You leaned towards calling me a bigot and nicely helped by adding the definition which ends with "folks with hatred and intolerance." When did saying you feel dissatisfied with someone become hatred and intolerance? Perhaps we should both look up the word intolerance. You asked why would someone want a bumper sticker that said “God [is dissatisfied] with Republicans”. I’ll tell you why…
because it’s funny that’s why. Sometimes I suppose humor doesn’t read well in discussion board format.
I’m gonna take a wild guess and say you probably don’t live in a RED state…like I do. Come hang out for a few weeks in my state, and see what intolerance is. See homemade signs in front lawns that read. "Obama would kill his own daughter’s baby" and that’s just a little taste of what signs and bumper stickers are down here. Yeah, by my using the word dissatisfied…I am being such a mealy mouth pathetic liberal (name given to me by the Republican members of my own family )….that’s about as much hatred as I can muster up. Spewing hate….I swear to you the only time in my life I ever witnessed what I would term as "spewing" hate, would be when I have had the chance to listen to right-winged radio. I’ll have to think about that. Perhaps there are other times but in the words of Sarah Palin…"I’ll have to get back at ya’ on the one. Yes, true Liberalism would include acceptance…but also my freedom also allows for me to feel dissatisfied.Part 2
I did not say "the poor donate all their time and effort to the needy and the rich don’t?" I not only find homes for exchange students but I also volunteer at a Mexican mobile home park outside of Athens that is basically a shanty town. There are homes there with no plumbing, Women who can’t read and children who are 9 and have never seen a dentist. There are about 20 of us who rotate around. We help find doctors, drive families to church and go to school conferences to help translate. Not one of us is Republican….What is that…a freaky coincidence? In the 10 years or so that I have helped place foreign exchange students in homes, I have never found a home in which the income is over $50,000 a year…believe me, I’ve tried. Not one home. Must be just another freaky coincidence. I do know one thing…I do know a bit about the Republican Party. As I said before my sister and her husband are UBER Republican’s and I must tell you….poor people freak them out. Like they don’t even want their children to be within 200 feet of one. I’m not joking. She tells me all the time that she is worried I’m going to pick something up from working with the Mexican’s and bring it into her home. Uhhh, and she’s not even saying it half-heartily.Part 3
I’m quite dumbfounded by this statement of yours.
I’m sorry that your limited experiences have left you so jaded and bitter against those who are better off.
You don’t really know me well…but in keeping with my mealy-mouthness
I was born in Mississippi, I was raised in Greenville….if you go to your google search engine and type in Refuge Mississippi…the first thing that pops up will say….Refuge, Greenville Mississippi. Refuge is the name of the plantation that I grew up on. Click on the link…go to the satellite image, click on that……….that’s my yard. Every bit of gray empty space you see there is cotton field belonging to the family. Go down to the end of Refuge road, where it makes the little circle thing, that’s the house. Scroll over to the left a few inches and see the Mississippi River. That’s some of the most prime fertile earth in this country. Complete with private air strip and 10 acre stocked cat fish pond. I attended the best private schools in the state. Traveled in Europe and lived in Spain for a while. I went to college in upstate New York and then in New York City where I lived for 10 years.
My husband, and I know this almost sounds like a joke, but it’s not….is the Grandson of the President of Colombia. Visiting Colombia for us involves cars with drivers and security detail. Recently he was included along with our children in a "Who’s who of Colombian elite"So, I repeat your statement….I’m sorry that your limited experiences have left you so jaded and bitter against those who are better off.
it brings tears to my eyes from laughter but…..while I have had wonderful experiences, I still hope that I can claim they are limited and the best is yet to come. I must add that both my husband and I feel our indulgent childhoods lead us to become the people we are now. We live a much simpler life, by choice, we bought our house (a very modest 2,300 square feet with a separate studio space and almost 5 acres outside of Athens) in 1994 with cash. No mortgage for us.part 4
I do like how you said "what the fudge" that’s one of my Mommy stock lines that keeps me out of trouble.part 5
Did I say republican’s were religious? I hardly believe that…………. so I’m surprised that I said it but………….no, they just seem to want to claim piety and righteousness for their party but that could be just a screwed up notion of mine. You asked So, there aren’t any religious democrats in the world? that would be me….I think. If we are talking about one who is devoted to religious beliefs.Part 6
Healthcare….it’s just to much for me to write about…I’m starting to get a shoulder ache and I need to run to my sweet sweet bed. All I can say is I believe in that slogan from the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation but I’m so tired I can’t recall it and I don’t want to go and find it but it’s something along the line of "everyone deserves to live a healthy and productive live and all life’s are created equal"Part 7
you said
I do find it interesting that you’re for socializing healthcare, but not socializing big businesses. It’s an interesting paradigm.
Well, yes and the reason why is intention
Every act we do from the moment we wake up until we go to bed should have intention. The words we speak the decisions we make.
So I ask…."What would be the intention of creating socialized health care?"
and "What would be the intention of bailing out the failing financials?
You asked "have I ever lived in a socialized system?" the answer is YES.Part 8
You asked "Do you want a free society or do you want a gov. regulated one?" I’d like the free one where I could sell Marijuana cookies to my friends and shop at Publix naked……is that possible? Ohhhh, the old dilemma of being born into this crazy world….Where’s the real freedom.last part
YOU SAIDWe’re not creating money out of thin air. You and every other American, all 300 million of us, are going to reach into our wallets and shell out about $2,200.00
I say……Wait a minute…..they need this money like yesterday dude. If things go their way they are going to get it tomorrow. I’m not sending them any money before this weekend. Where will the Fed get this money to give them tomorrow or they next day? They will create it out of thin air. Oh, they say they are going to hit us up for it in the future. This is why this whole ship is sinking.I’ll gladly pay you tomorrow for what I’m going to use today. Read up as much as you can on Ron Paul idea of the FED. Put into your search engine "money out of thin air" read as much as possible because I’ve just run out of writing steam. You could learn a lot and come back with some counter points. I say…. Hello, Weimar Republic just like Max said.Truth be told, I’m actually too old to find things gloomy anymore, and I can’t work up any energy for a good scrap, I just find humor in almost everything which from my point of view is a pretty good place to be.This is AWESOME!!!
I have not seen a conversation like this on this board in literally years.Yes, it is hard to determine inflection from a post and the time delay prevents rapid response to mis-interpretation, so please allow me to clarify. I am in no way on the attack here. I am merely trying to nudge and prod, and promote thought and conversation. I also like to play devil’s advocate, so I may pick out a point and counter it, but only because I want to further understand where someone’s thoughts and beliefs truly lie, and then re-evaluate where mine are as well.
‘Stef, please understand, some of my comments aren’t directed squarely at you, they are directed at the other poster’s on this thread as well. I wrote this up during my lunch break, so something that came at as “you” may have been directed at comments in the posts in general. The mind is always much faster then the hands, as they type at about 1/100th the speed of my brain.
But I do enjoy this conversation thus far and where it is going, and when I have more time to write a more in-depth response, I will.
And thank you for the additional pointers on reading material and places to gather more knowledge, I will enjoy them very much.
Hey K7….I’m sorry it took so long to get back to Freakscene and post.
I must admit I really do admire your taking the time to express your point of view and your post showed a high level of thought and it’s always good for me to see Freakscene fans who are passionate about life outside of the good music we all seem to appreciate. I had a wonderful debate professor in high school that taught me the importance of being able to deeply understand the opposite side of any issue. We had to take a stand on a subject the we felt strongly about and one that we knew well (through gathered information combined with additional study) and then after we had presented our point of view we had to turn around and "debate" the opposite side of the issue with conviction. I’ve tried to instill that in my children….I want them to take an issue that they dislike and then try and see why someone else can find a foundation of truth in that issue. The only way we can make things better is when we take opposite ideas and try and find the fulcrum logic between the two. I do have the same problem I’m sure a lot of folks do and that is I often think that my ideas are the BEST….the HIGHEST….and I’m taken off guard when I confront people who believe differently than I do and are able to back up those ideas with an intelligent and convincing argument. Like a lot of people I’m so damn angry at where we stand now as a country. It’s the biggest heap of bullshit yet although when I complain to my Father he says "come on there is nothing new under the sun….nothing" That heaping pile of crap has been there since the beginning of time. Perhaps…I can’t stand contrictions even though I’m sure that I am full of them. The religious right aligning themselves with John Mccain or the Republican party drives me nuts. Folks who worship Jesus but seem to spend very little time absorbing the nuances of his ideas. The religious right backs Mccain who says he is pro-life…hey, most of us are pro-life, in the generalist sense of the word. How can one be pro-life and pro-war at the same time or encourage women to have children but not want to help that woman or that child to sustain the life they have by offering health care if they can not afford it. Obama and most Democrats are not pro-abortion they are just pro-choice…shouldn’t we all be free to maintain our on moralities. How can you force someone to be free of sin? How do you force morality on someone…you can’t. Morality is decided by our thoughts and actions. Freewill is something we all inherited after "the fall" They ask "What would Jesus Do?" Jesus would want us to have the freedom to decide…that’s the only true way to any sort of salvation in the truest sense of that word. Obama has never been divorced…Mccain has, if one married in the traditional "Christian" way then he promised to God to work things out when times got tough. I think Mccain had a traditional Christian marriage ceremony. What a load of baloney, if you stand in front of your idea of God and promise to stay together and then drop the ball, that is such a pile of baloney, for real. If you get married at city hall or by Babba sumumu or the the captain of the Federation of clouds then I think other standards may apply but not in a traditional Christian marriage. I speak from knowledge on this part because my soon to be 18 year relationship is not recognized by anyone other than Juan and I. We married ourselves, in the Catholic sense, with out the church, with out the ceremony and without spending any money. When our children used to ask if we are ever going to get REALLY married we would say to them….this is a marriage in the truest sense. The Christians are backing up a fellow who stood up and dissed God with his marriage vows verses Obama the anti-Christian has not. Obama is on a charity board with an ex-terroist, so what?…Who did Jesus hang out with. Yes, K7 these type of conversations are important. I agree with you we need to understand where others thoughts and beliefs are so we can find the balance.
On a positive note I’ve been selling homemade food at the local Athens Farmers Market and have found a great new source of income. This is taking up tons of my time between that and all of the kids extra
curricular activities. I haven’t been able to find time to do the computer so much anymore but lets try and keep dialog open. I’m still a big fan of everything Dinosaur/J Mascis and other than some news publications I like to come here to find out what’s going on in the world. Oh, I’m including a link to photos from the Farmers Market http://www.athensfarmersmarket.net/photo_gallery”>http://www.athensfarmersmarket.net/photo_gallery It’s about to close down for the winter but we will be back in the spring. Peace, S.
Oh….P freakin’ S….Where is that damned space ship when you need it?Oh wow! Look what happens when you forget to write a response to things on here. Looks like I am going to have to triple time it to respond to all this. OK, I am going to try and respond to a few things, more to come…
To answer your question, I live in Ohio, which has historically been a “red” state. When people say the heartland, and a are referring to a bunch of <insert brand of choice> truck driving hicks, they are referring to my state. I live in Columbus. A suburb of Columbus is Westerville. Westerville is the home of prohibition, if that tells you anything about where I live. Although Obama appears to have this state, I only see McCain/Palin signs everywhere. From what I understand, we also have one of the largest Somolian and gay populations in the country. Back when I landscaped, many of my migratory Mexican counterparts said this city was awesome because everyone is so nice and respectful to minorities here, unlike many of the other cities they had lived in. So, either we’re one exceptional conundrum, or maybe all the stereotypes being spewed about conservatives/republicans here aren’t that accurate.
To some of my original issues about Dems being closed minded…I guess what I am saying is that there are posters on this thread, Stefka, Vaguely Dismemeber, and Erin the Great, who are clearly Dems, but seem to be putting forth the message that the republicans are a bunch of (select words of choice) bible beating, anti-abortion, suburban living, poor people hating, non charity giving, self serving, loathsome bastards and are the root cause of all our problems based on the republicans they have encounterd. To which I say, first I disagree and secondly, for a group that touts itself as being caring and open minded, and respectful of their fellow man, there seems to be a lot of cold shoulders and unwillingness to see the other sides point of view. It’s all finger pointing and blame, and telling of why another group sucks. Hardly the warm reception I would have expected. So much so, that I no longer want my political affiliation to be with this group. I feel this group (Dems) in my experience is also (just as they accuse republicans of the same) a group that doesn’t follow through on the ideals it perpetuates.
‘Stef, you mentioned signs in your town about Obama “eating babies” was it? How it that any different from the link Built to Spill just posted? I guess what I am getting at, is the hate is coming from both directions. How is one person right when the other is wrong? Whether your calling conservatives <insert words of choice>, or taking shots like “fucking democrats are welfare loathing treehuggers” as weezerfreak942 so eloquently put it (rolls eyes), you’re still sending a message of hate and I guess that is what I am trying to point out here. Democrats say the word “republican” with as much hate and disdain as the word “nigger” is used at a KKK rally. My point is, people who are claiming to identify with a group (Dems) that is supposed to be compassionate and open-minded are spewing the same garbage as their republican counterparts, just in a different message, so doesn’t that really make you the same?
I can go on and expand and elaborate even more, and would like to in additional posts
Suburbia and “white, rich, republican neighborhoods” — I do want to discuss this because it has come up in multiple posts, but will revisit at another time.
OK, I am going to try and throw a couple of thoughts together here, and segue into one larger piece…
Erin the great stated “I can tell you firsthand that the wealthier people are, they less they give and the greedier they are.” to which I have to disagree. There was an article last night on yahoo about the income tax (sorry I can’t find the link today). It stated 5% of Americans pay over half the nation’s income tax, and 40% don’t pay anything at all.
Excuse me? If that is right, then my original question/statement about “the rich already contributing more to society just by paying higher taxes” seems to hold water. I have also worked for some fairly large corporations (Chase and Nationwide) and the amount of charity work they perform is phenomenal. Hardly the always evil, always menacing perception Democrats want to give them. Every month they had some sort of charity drive going on, and it seemed to me, the people that didn’t contribute, were the ones on the bottom who typically identified themselves as Democrats with the attitude being, “well I don’t have the money, let the people who make more donate”. So this is direct contrast to Erin’s position. I’m sorry, I disagree completely. I also happen to be one of those “more fortunate” people, and I donate to every drive my current employer has. I also donate to local charities, and to a few other select groups I am interested in. Many of my “more fortunate” associates do the same. Want to know who doesn’t donate, my “less fortunate, democratic voting friends”. Sorry, but I have to disagree, the "rich republicans" do plenty of donating, you just may not see it.
40% of Americans don’t contribute financially to society, but they do get all the perks of it. Granted, they obviously are making very little (a completely separate item deserving its own discussion), but they do get a lot of the benefits from it. And this is where I have the issue…
So let’s say we overhaul and socialize healthcare. As Tonas brought up, who is going to pay for it? Does it really seem fair that 5% of the population pays half of it; while 40% of the nation doesn’t contribute anything yet gets the same benefit? I’m sorry, you brought up the Ponzi scheme, but how is this not a scam?
And how does this really address the root problem of health care? Or what even are the root problems of healthcare?
You (‘Stefka) said yourself that there is huge population of Mexicans who take their kids to the ER for the slightest event which drives up the cost. So isn’t the real root problem of healthcare (and being covered by it) is that it is so expensive? And the cause of that problem being more people take out then what is being put in.
So then, my question is, how will it be any less expensive under a socialized system? How will socializing it address the root issues? Rather then socializing it, shouldn’t we be addressing the real issue, the cost? And then my original issue, if I pay into it, and you don’t but you get the same benefit, where is my incentive to pay into it? It seems to me, that if you want the perk/benefit of something, you need to contribute it. When people talk of a welfare state, I’m sorry, but that is exactly what we would be moving toward. When the few supply the needs of the many and the many don’t contribute to satisfying their needs, that is indeed a welfare system.
Maybe, what we should do is institute mandatory military service like many of our socialized European counterparts. Then, I wouldn’t have such an issue with socialized healthcare, or even a more socialized state. Ultimately, I think if you’re going to benefit from something, you need to put into it.
OK, I have to get some work done, more to follow…
White urban neighborhoods where the streets are clean and the “well to do” are oblivious to the less fortunate.
I recently bought a house in suburbia, but why did I move here?
Crime – is very low. People here have formed a neighborhood watch. They get to know their neighbors and look out for each other.
Nice clean streets and sense of community – Why are they that way? People here actually care and contribute to their neighborhoods. They don’t expect someone else to do it for them. There is a community association, and people volunteer to take turns cleaning up sections of the neighborhood. They volunteer to take on tasks that help make this a nice place to live, such as cleaning up debris and planting bushes at the main entrance to our community. Rather then let their lawns grow out of control, and throwing their litter in the front yard, they maintain their property.
What on earth is wrong with caring about the neighborhood you live in? Sure enough, I already spend time taking care of where I live, maybe instead of having to also care about the poorer neighborhoods around me, the people that already live in them should.
Speaking of trash, before buying this house, I lived in an apartment complex that I would say based on the bumper stickers was predominantly democratic. My front windows overlooked a parking lot that had 6 giant dumpsters for recycling. You know how many people I saw carrying recyclable goods to those bins rather then throwing it in the trash? I’d say less then 5% of the apartment community. However, in my predominantly republican voting neighborhood, nearly every single house has a bin they put out with recycled goods in that gets collected. So who really cares more about the environment?
Schools – The schools here are phenomenal. Why? The people here pass levies. They are willing to pay higher taxes if it goes to education. They participate in their schools. What on earth is wrong with that? But now they should be expected to help other school districts pass their levies and pay their taxes?
The people – I don’t believe people are lazy because the don’t have health insurance. I do believe they are lazy if they choose to do nothing to promote their situation and complain about it instead. Libraries are free, books are free. An education or vocation can be so easily obtained our society, it only takes output on the person’s part.
Ex.) My neighbors had no way to go to college. Two of them joined the service, and let the service pay for their schooling. So, they gave Uncle Sam a 6 year commitment and in return got an education. They started at the bottom with nothing, and worked their way up. They asked the important questions…who, what, when, where, why. They worked overtime. They volunteered for side projects and to take on charitable events at their places of work. They go to church. They pay taxes. They donate money. They are probably going to vote republican, but they are pieces of crap because of their political lines?
Location, location, location – I live on the borderline of the city and two of its suburbs. One suburb has phenom schools, the other is known as a “high end” section of town. I pay very low city taxes, get the exceptional schools by contributing to town levies, and get the high end neighborhood address association. Know what it does? Instant home value, great schools for my kids (when I have them), very desirable location. Why do I and the people that also live in this suburban neighborhood therefor suck? Because we’ve made sound investment choices? Just because we’re promoting our own agenda in terms of living conditions, we’re somehow screwing those less fortunate?
So why did I move here? Why wouldn’t I?
And this is just a side note, but there is this one neighbor…
He has two pit bulls. By law, he has to have them fenced in and has to carry $100k in insurance. Instead, he lets them roam the neighborhood. He lets them go into his neighbors’ yards and leave their excrement. He leaves his trash sitting in his driveway. Sometimes, when the wind comes through, it knocks over his trash can and spreads his garbage around the neighborhood. He doesn’t pick it up. Why would he, can’t someone else do it? At 11:30 on Sunday nights, you can hear him out back yelling profanities at his dogs, even though everyone has to be up early for school and work the next day. Oh, did I mention he is voting Obama? I sure am glad he’s a liberal and is “all about the community”.I guess my point is, whether Dem or Repub, sucky people transcend political ties. But if people are going to trash Repubs on this board, I think it only fair they take a look at Dems too. We need to get past political affiliation if we are ever going to solve our problems.
I guess my point is what’s wrong with suburbia? If the problem is that suburbia is a collection of people who actually care about their neighbors and their neighborhood, and take the time to make their community a nice place to live, I really don’t have a response…
Interesting read…
The Aussie’s have a socialized system which can be supplemented with private coverage as well.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081031/ap_on_re_au_an/as_australia_residency_denied
So, how is socialized healthcare the answer? How are you guaranteed access to the services you need at an affordable price, let alone, at all?
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