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Quote:I am really glad there are Lou-vocal songs on this record. Lou is extremely talented.
He is a so much better singer now
"sfbarker " wrote:Pirating is not stealing. Stealing is taking something away from someone. The band still has their music, I have it too…they’re not out anything they had before. So, it’s not technically stealing. The music isn’t the important part for me, it’s supporting a band I believe in. The CD is just something I get as a parting gift. I’m all for downloading. It keeps people from making garbage and selling it as if it’s good.Also, this album is TOTALLY worth buying.
Dude, what planet do you live on? D’you know what Fair Trade is ? It’s not this. I’d rather get a sucky 0.89¢ from a record company than have someone pirate and distribute my disc ten times over for free. I really don’t understand your rationale. "The music is not important to me?" Music is what they DO. That’s their LIFE. If the band doesn’t own the copyright to their music–J had been fighting for years to get the copyrights back to the first three albums. It’s an insult to steal from the band. If someone at Fat Possum is leaking albums to get ripped, they should be fired. How many artists are that much protected to keep on making a decent living AS AN ARTIST? Not as many as you’d like to think. They deserve that respect. I think it’s a very clear line–not one that is drawn in the sand.
Whoa there sparky, are you press too? You just did an awesome pulling out of context quote. The music on the CD is irrelevant. The music exists before and after the disc. A CD is a small part of the whole thing. It’s not the end all, be all vehicle for song. Mp3s and FLAC will preserve these songs well beyond the life of any CD that is used. That is why I mean by the music not being important.
And no, it’s not an insult. As a musician, who records, etc, I would be flattered to no end if someone was so excited about something I was releasing that they would get to it early. I’m sure J and the boys aren’t insulted that fans want to hear the album so badly they’re downloading it early. If you want to circumvent this, release the album via iTunes or something before it’s released on CD.
For you, you view music as a product. That’s fine. That’s the good American way to view everything. It’s all a commodity to be bought and sold. However, for art’s sake, the music is just a representation of the artist’s intentions. Meaning, I can see free images of any painting online, I could print it out on a piece of paper and carry it around with me. But, if I really love the artist, I’d want to go to a showing, buy a print, buy a lithography, etc. However, if I had never seen the artist’s work I’d never have that connection to their intent.
For people who love music, it’s a connection to the emotions expressed through music and/or lyrics. I buy albums that I connect to. I’ve downloaded A LOT of album, I’m a prolific theif, no shame felt. And I can honestly say, I’ve bought maybe 5% of those albums. I’ve also deleted most of the music I’ve downloaded because it wasn’t worth the time and effort. You must realize, listening to music costs more than money, it takes a lot of your life to listen to them.
I understand your copyright argument. I, myself, am an ASCAP member. For me, it’s a way to protect other people from taking my music and profitting off of it. It also means I get royalties off of performances by other bands, etc. If anything I write is used, I get paid. I’ve gotten about enough to buy a pack of gum off of this, but still, if I didn’t have my songs registered with ASCAP or copywritten, someone else could have recorded them, sold albums or had them downloaded by millions of thieves and I’d never see a cent. The money is good. When I go buy a new guitar or new pedal or most often, some new picks that my art has financed, it’s a rush. But the smidgeon of money you make from record sales isn’t really enough to break the bank.
I’d be interested to see the sales numbers for this album, I’m guessing it sells less than 50,000…most realistically 30,000. Which is killer for an indie release. So, a 10% cut from album sales due to downloaders who don’t buy would mean a $300 loss, which would suck, but you have to realize, that 10% would just download the album AFTER it was released, so it’s not helping anything. Of course, by people hearing this album NOW, they’ll be stoked for it’s release. Everyone loves artwork and lyrics. I’m willing to bet, most bands with a reasonable following, will make the money they lose on downloading back in merch and record sales due to new people getting into the band by having a "no money lost" preview of the band’s work.
And finally, I don’t think many artists make a living at their art at all. Most musicians I know, who have been on major labels, still have real jobs. They work in music shops, do carpentry, get seasonal office jobs, etc. Anything they can do that allows them to have touring time. 95% of musicians do not make a living playing music. And 3% of the 5% who do only do it for a short period of time (10 years or less). You do art because you love it, not to make a living at it. It’s unfortunate, but it’s the way it works.
Hope you understand the logic a bit more now.
sfbarkers,
Thanks for making many good points that I completely agree with. There’s no contradiction in being for free sharing of music and at the same time being for spending money on artists that you love. I’m all for both.I wholeheartedly second that.
As a sidenote, if I remember correctly Bob, or someone in his "management," is quoted in the GBV biography hunting accidents blablabla… that a GBV release normally sells from 20.000 to 30.000. I would guess a Dino record sells about the same.yeh there are some great points there sfbarker. If it weren’t for soulseek there’s no way I would have been able to check out half the bands I listen to now simply because I don’t have the money to buy hundreds of CDs. I’m sure artists would rather people listen to their music for free than never even know about it. I always buy the CDs of bands that I’ve already checked out that way I don’t waste any of my money on stuff I don’t like. It’s a good system for me and saves me selling off CDs I don’t like on ebay anymore.
I couldn’t believe that some of Bardo Pond work as carpenters, they’re one of my favorite bands yet they still have real jobs too.
Yeah, I love this band called The Bottle Rockets…they’re awesome and have been on a few majors, but Brian Henneman, their vocalist/guitarist/songwriter works in a vintage music shop and hangs drywall to make a living since the music doesn’t take care of him. It’s unfair, but it’s not downloading’s fault. He was doing this pre-Napster…as were lots of people.
I remember when Mark Arm had to get a job I was totally bummed. It was like "how can one of my heros have to work?", he was royalty in my book……. it just didn’t seem right.
Its a shame the world doesn’t work that way.
I too played in a band for many years and had some local success, shows, radio airplay, cd’s and such. I can’t ever remember making a lot of money out of it, not to metion we weren’t too business savy. Honestly I didn’t ever really care about the money, I was always most happy writing songs and arranging them, I liked shows too, but had the most fun during the creative process of it. I always worked while doing it so I don’t know what life would be like having to rely soley on that income. If it was tight I’m sure I would be bummed about every little bit that I didn’t get, but if I was doing ok I probably wouldn’t put up too much of a fuss over $300 split 3 ways.
I am loving the new album more and more. It may actually be my second favorite Dinosaur album! I just love Pick Me Up! The guitar on that song is mind blowing.
Hatchetface,
I’m with you. I cant wait to see J and the guys turn that into a 10 minute noisefest live too.
I like Pick Me Up too. Except for the part when J’s singin "HOOOOOOOODD ONNNN" with the annoying sound Dubbing? the guitar.
The only thing i would wish more from the album is for songs like Almost Ready to make the guitar stand out a little more or have less distortion. It seems too cramped with all the other instruments.
but yea, im definitely buying the album
and if anyone wants a hook-up (hint hint)my AIM Screen Name is: DinosaurJr942 (have high speed internet please)
Here’s a response to the matter of downloading music for free from John Easdale, singer of Dramarama, that just arrived in my inbox this morning. It’s interesting (and poignant) to get a response from a real, working, struggling professional musician, and one with a great catalog behind him:
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Hey All,
I just wanted to share with you all my response to a message we
received….Oringinal message
HEY GUYS I JUST DOWNLOADED UR WOLE CATALOG from?????IM NOT GUILTY CAUSE I OWN
ALL THE TAPES AND CDS AND I SUPPORT U GUYS 100% JUST WANTED 2 LET U KNOW THE
DEAL IF UR COOL WITH IT I’LL SHARE MY FILES IF NOT I UNDERSTAND ITS YOUR MUSIC
AND WHAT GREAT MUSIC IT IS BUT IT ALL OUTA PRINT AND HARD 2 FINDMy response
Oh the dilemma….
I really appreciate your asking. If you must, could you please just burn
some copies of your CD’s for your friends. We have an exclusive contract with
itunes for the tunes that are available which brings in a minimal amount of
cash each month (think a Taco Bell trip for the band and their families),and
are working on trying to get the rest up (everything the band owns is now
available on itunes, the other albums we do not own) Not being able to cover
the costs of shows, airfare, hotel, car rental, etc. has really prevented us
from playing as much as we’d like to. Having our work, that we personally have
invested not only the cliché blood sweat and tears in but also plenty of
scrimped and saved dollars, out there for the taking without any sort of
permission much less compensation just doesn’t seem right. Especially
considering the fact that almost any hope of a "real job” is lost because we
do want to continue to make music.
Singer in a rock band is not what most companies are hiring these days.Again, I truly appreciate your asking.
Thanks 1,000,000je
"sfbarker " wrote:For you, you view music as a product. That’s fine. That’s the good American way to view everything. It’s all a commodity to be bought and sold. However, for art’s sake, the music is just a representation of the artist’s intentions. Meaning, I can see free images of any painting online, I could print it out on a piece of paper and carry it around with me. But, if I really love the artist, I’d want to go to a showing, buy a print, buy a lithography, etc. However, if I had never seen the artist’s work I’d never have that connection to their intent. *For people who love music, it’s a connection to the emotions expressed through music and/or lyrics. I buy albums that I connect to. I’ve downloaded A LOT of album, I’m a prolific theif, no shame felt. And I can honestly say, I’ve bought maybe 5% of those albums. I’ve also deleted most of the music I’ve downloaded because it wasn’t worth the time and effort. You must realize, listening to music costs more than money, it takes a lot of your life to listen to them.
Hope you understand the logic a bit more now.
* First off, I don’t view music as a commodity. I view it under reciprocal trade. Fair Trade. Downloading the whole album for free, in this case, in advance of an official release date without the artist’s or management’s consent is disrespectful thievery. Yes, I also agree that there are too many hacks in the business right now, all walking around with a huge back catalogue of robotic sounding soulless fast food tunes that were good once and are now sadly re-cycled and sold as a commodity, which is (maybe) more profitable and much less costly than having to support an artist penning new tunes. And yes, this is a complicated issue that should be taken on a case by case basis. For an musician, to keep creative control and copyright (note: I am not talking about copyleft, in which the artist OK’s a free-for-all) should be the most important thing.
N.B. I take what you write at face value. That, to me, is not a misquote. If you write "The music on the CD is irrelevant," or "the music isn’t the important part for me," I’ll take it for what it means to you: The music on the CD is irrelevant and the music isn’t the important part for you.
Downloading illegally is only beneficial to the person doing it (assuming they don’t get caught). It hurts the artists, labels, record stores, legitimate download sites, etc., etc. Whether you hate "the big bad record company" or not, illegally downloading an album is no different than walking into Wal Mart, taking a CD and walking out of the store without paying for it. I realize there’s a tangible item in this case, rather than digital files but that makes little difference.
If artists and labels thought it was good for their art to release the songs for free they would do it through their website which they almost never do.
Personally, I think if you end up buying the album and don’t share it with others, it’s not as bad to download the advance copies but that’s a fine line and still obviously illegal.
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