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I have no guilt in this. And yes, when I used to go to Wherehouse Music, they had labels that they could not open for you to play. Also, maybe it’s just here in Texas, but they will not take returns on CDs that have the shrinkwrap removed.
I ordered the CD because I have every other Dinosaur, Jr album that’s been released, so I want this one to keep the set together. Also, it’s an album I want to support with my cash. Why would I feel guilty about downloading anything? I’m certain J hasn’t cried a single tear over this. I’m sure he and Lou Barlow are pumped when they play and people already know these songs and sing along. I’m also sure they’ll be happy when this album sales exactly what they figured it would.
And, annastefka, I appreciate your post. You’re 100% right. It’s a transitional time in the industry and scary for a lot of people. Also, I think could be 100% right about Fat Possum letting it leak. They’ve been on a downward slide since Epitaph pulled out on their joint venture. They need something to get the name out there and the catalog selling. You should buy R.L. Burnside’s Ass Pocket of Whiskey. It’s basically R.L. and the Jon Spencer Blues Explosion hanging out at his house recording. It’s priceless. You can hear them getting drunker as the recording goes on.
"King Tubby " wrote:You know…..you sound like a real, 100%, grade-A asshole. Maybe you’re not actually one, but if these sentiments truly reflect who you are as a whole person, then I’m afraid my judgment stands.By the way, I have no idea who "the chick from Rockstar" is, or that she covered a Dramarama song. And for the record, that band never "lived the lifestyle," flying from place to place like the Rolling Stones. Not even close. The real problem has to do with spoiled-brat-type assholes who think they have the right, as good American consumers, to sample the results of the work of others — without paying a thing for it — to decide whether it meets their lofty standards, after which they might deign to honor the musicians by –*gasp* — actually *paying* for their work. And anyway, that’s what sound clips, and authorized single-track mp3 downloads, are for.
And the "relevance" argument about musicians is just crass and stupid. Jessica Simpson sells 3 million copies of her latest cd; J sells about 30,000. Does this example of her greater "relevance," as determined by the marketplace, mean that J’s music is "no longer viable," and that he should pack it up?
Sadly, the mindlessness of Jessica Simpson and the sensationalism of her life is more relevant to today’s world. Sorry, but it’s the way it is.
Look, a CD is $15. For your average, minimum wage worker, they would have to work nearly 3 hours of their lives to afford to purchase a single CD. If the CD has one "radio hit" and a bunch of trash, they’ve been swindled out of the life they used to earn that CD. As I said before, I can return any other product that doesn’t live up to it’s expectations or it’s hype. I can’t do that with music or movies. It’s unfair for the consumer. I’m sorry, if me valueing my life so much that I don’t want to work to be ripped off by someone who doesn’t want to make a complete, SOLID work, then so I will accept that.
I would much rather sample the music FOR FREE then buy the album. Remember when CD stores all started having listening stations? Remember certain labels wouldn’t allow their releases to be listened to IN-STORE because they knew people would hear how weak they were and not buy them. It’s the same thing with online music, people are afraid people will hear the half-assed attempts and just buy a mix CD or download the one song.
Also, called my wife to ask…the girl’s name was Storm Large, she did the song on the Rockstar TV show. I’m sure the sales on that song on iTunes blew up after that…for Dramarama. I mean, I love a lot of band most people don’t, I’m not going to blame downloading for their inability to tour. Their inability to tour comes from no one caring and wanting to buy tickets. Touring has VERY little to do with record sales…most bands tour WAY before their albums are released. It’s not a valid excuse. You have to draw an audience to make money at touring and playing music. Dramarama can’t do that anymore, so they can’t make money touring. Downloading is an easy scapegoat for A LOT of washed up folks (by industry standards).
I may be an asshole, I value my life too much to work to pay for garbage. I buy CDs, lots of them, but I buy NOTHING I haven’t heard before unless I believe in the band. I bought the new Melvins album without hearing it. It was alright, not the best, but alright. I’d 90% of the 200+ CDs I’ve bought in the past 2 years have been downloaded before purchased. Hell, I’ve already purchased the new Dino, Jr. and I’m listening to it as I type this.
"andyfest " wrote:Downloading illegally is only beneficial to the person doing it (assuming they don’t get caught). It hurts the artists, labels, record stores, legitimate download sites, etc., etc. Whether you hate "the big bad record company" or not, illegally downloading an album is no different than walking into Wal Mart, taking a CD and walking out of the store without paying for it. I realize there’s a tangible item in this case, rather than digital files but that makes little difference.If artists and labels thought it was good for their art to release the songs for free they would do it through their website which they almost never do.
Personally, I think if you end up buying the album and don’t share it with others, it’s not as bad to download the advance copies but that’s a fine line and still obviously illegal.
Not to be rude, but that is a ridiculous statement. I have personally heard bands I would not have heard otherwise and PURCHASED albums I would not have had I not downloaded something from the band. I have bought shirts, concert tickets and more from bands I would have no heard otherwise. And I’m willing to believe I’m not some special one-of-a-kind human being, so your statement is rather invalid.
The main reason the record industry hates downloading is that you can sample the music. That same reason the artists whine, etc. It makes the work too hard in most cases. If I walk into Walmart and buy an item that ends up being what I don’t need or want OR doesn’t do the job I was led to believe it did, I can return it. With a CD, if I buy it and it doesn’t stand up to my expectation of quality, I cannot return it. It’s unfair to me, there is no fair trade in music. Consumers have no rights in the music field. If you hear a song on the radio, think the band is good and buy an album full of filler, you can’t return it.
The dude from Dramarama needs to get over himself. The only reason 98% of the people who know they exists anymore knows is because the chick from Rockstar covered their song last summer. I look at it this way: When I’m going on tour, I rent a van, pack in the instruments and go on the road. Set up guarantees so you know what you’re making and can budget. Sure, not everyone can do guarantees (i.e. – ME), but I’m sure Dramarama can get someone to do it for them. The problem is, they believe it’s still 1986 and they can fly from show to show and live the lifestyle…they need to get over it. That time is gone. Trust me, if the ONLY place to get Dramarama songs on Earth was iTunes, this guy would STILL not have enough money to fly from show to show, etc. It’s hard accepting life when your relevance is gone.
That’s how industry is. When you’re no longer relevant, you will disappear and your business will no longer be viable. Music, as an industry, is the same way. It’s a bummer, it is, but tastes change and so do people.
However, I will be honest, being called a Disrespectful Thief doesn’t hurt my feelings. If that’s how you view my take, fine, I’ll accept the label. For me, it’s a case of "Do unto others…" I’d happily be in the spot of any of these bands and you will NEVER hear me complain about anyone downloading anything I have or will release. As long as no one else is cashing in on it, I don’t care if I do.
Honestly, this is a debate where there will be no resolution. Someone will complain no matter what. I’m all for sampling before you buy and finding new music through cost-free searching. It’s not much different than the battles over recordable cassettes…people recorded all sorts of songs off the radio and the music industry said it was theft for people to do that. Also, a study just releases found a .7% drop in CD sales in 2002 due to downloading. Hardly worth the freak out if you ask me. Also, we must take into account the current economy, the war, etc. All entertainment industries are making less. It’s just the state of nation as much as downloaders.
I’ve been working out "What If I Knew…"
Would it be bad to cover this live before the album comes out?
Yeah, I love this band called The Bottle Rockets…they’re awesome and have been on a few majors, but Brian Henneman, their vocalist/guitarist/songwriter works in a vintage music shop and hangs drywall to make a living since the music doesn’t take care of him. It’s unfair, but it’s not downloading’s fault. He was doing this pre-Napster…as were lots of people.
Whoa there sparky, are you press too? You just did an awesome pulling out of context quote. The music on the CD is irrelevant. The music exists before and after the disc. A CD is a small part of the whole thing. It’s not the end all, be all vehicle for song. Mp3s and FLAC will preserve these songs well beyond the life of any CD that is used. That is why I mean by the music not being important.
And no, it’s not an insult. As a musician, who records, etc, I would be flattered to no end if someone was so excited about something I was releasing that they would get to it early. I’m sure J and the boys aren’t insulted that fans want to hear the album so badly they’re downloading it early. If you want to circumvent this, release the album via iTunes or something before it’s released on CD.
For you, you view music as a product. That’s fine. That’s the good American way to view everything. It’s all a commodity to be bought and sold. However, for art’s sake, the music is just a representation of the artist’s intentions. Meaning, I can see free images of any painting online, I could print it out on a piece of paper and carry it around with me. But, if I really love the artist, I’d want to go to a showing, buy a print, buy a lithography, etc. However, if I had never seen the artist’s work I’d never have that connection to their intent.
For people who love music, it’s a connection to the emotions expressed through music and/or lyrics. I buy albums that I connect to. I’ve downloaded A LOT of album, I’m a prolific theif, no shame felt. And I can honestly say, I’ve bought maybe 5% of those albums. I’ve also deleted most of the music I’ve downloaded because it wasn’t worth the time and effort. You must realize, listening to music costs more than money, it takes a lot of your life to listen to them.
I understand your copyright argument. I, myself, am an ASCAP member. For me, it’s a way to protect other people from taking my music and profitting off of it. It also means I get royalties off of performances by other bands, etc. If anything I write is used, I get paid. I’ve gotten about enough to buy a pack of gum off of this, but still, if I didn’t have my songs registered with ASCAP or copywritten, someone else could have recorded them, sold albums or had them downloaded by millions of thieves and I’d never see a cent. The money is good. When I go buy a new guitar or new pedal or most often, some new picks that my art has financed, it’s a rush. But the smidgeon of money you make from record sales isn’t really enough to break the bank.
I’d be interested to see the sales numbers for this album, I’m guessing it sells less than 50,000…most realistically 30,000. Which is killer for an indie release. So, a 10% cut from album sales due to downloaders who don’t buy would mean a $300 loss, which would suck, but you have to realize, that 10% would just download the album AFTER it was released, so it’s not helping anything. Of course, by people hearing this album NOW, they’ll be stoked for it’s release. Everyone loves artwork and lyrics. I’m willing to bet, most bands with a reasonable following, will make the money they lose on downloading back in merch and record sales due to new people getting into the band by having a "no money lost" preview of the band’s work.
And finally, I don’t think many artists make a living at their art at all. Most musicians I know, who have been on major labels, still have real jobs. They work in music shops, do carpentry, get seasonal office jobs, etc. Anything they can do that allows them to have touring time. 95% of musicians do not make a living playing music. And 3% of the 5% who do only do it for a short period of time (10 years or less). You do art because you love it, not to make a living at it. It’s unfortunate, but it’s the way it works.
Hope you understand the logic a bit more now.
For me, the Electric Mistress isn’t too bad. I use flange quite a bit. So much so, I’ve wore out 2 of the Danelectro FAB pedals since Christmas. Musiciansfriend.com went down on all their EH pedals so it’s down to $134 and will last me forever, I’m guessing. All my EH pedals have held up pretty well…except the Double Muff, but it got treated like hell for years.
I dig the new Nano pedals they’ve got. They’re a lot cheaper, more solid and do what I want. I dig the Nano Clone. It’s set about how I like it on depth and the rate is adjustable, so it’s a pretty good buy if you dig that area of depth. I remember paying $100 for digital delays in the last 90s, so it’s not too bad. I wish we’d have had all the cheap alternatives back then.
I went economy on the guitar, bought a Jagmaster and put in a GFS Dream 90 in the bridge spot, it’s pretty close to a Jazzmaster’s tone in standard settings. You don’t have the range, but after some more rewiring and customizing of the electronics in it, it’ll be pretty much the same thing at 1/3 of the price. However, on pedals, I’ve found money=quality. I try not to skimp out on pedals unless I have no alternative.
I’d love to check one of those out. I see a place here in Houston sells them. I’ve been switching between two Big Muffs for different sounds. I use a Russian Big Muff for rhythm, more subdued parts and a Little Big Muff with the tone at 1 o’clock, sustain pegged and volume at 50% for leads. Of course, mixed with the Russian one, it explodes. I’d love to try it with a new tube amp. I’m using a Sunn Concert Lead right now, which is solid-state, but it still sounds killer. I used to use a Double Muff…with the single setting pegged for leads, because the double setting just bogged everything down. I need to work on getting some more pedals again. My next desire is an Electric Mistress.
"everyonelovesjaron " wrote:No court of competent jurisdiction agrees with you.I work in a law school, trust me, I know from experience, rational thought and law are two separate things. The American Capitalist system runs off of what makes corporations more money. As long as the major labels are against it, the courts will be. However, look at recent statements by Steve Jobs AND EMI…while they’re for people buying mp3s via itunes, they’re against putting copy protection on them. So people can dispearse freely. And yes, I’m 100% sure, having collegues who are lawyers doesn’t mean I know law, but you do learn a bit in the field.
I’ve been in a lot of bands over the years and I can say this: You make MUCH MORE money off of shows than you do off of record sales. Shows and merch are where bands make most of their money. Also, whoever quoted Watt as saying bands make more selling CDs at shows is 100% correct. When a label sells an album to a record store, they sell it wholesale…normally $8-10. The store sells it for $13-15 and the band gets roughly a dollar out of the wholesale price. When a band buy it’s own CD from the label, it pays wholesale and will sell it for $15, thus getting a $1 royalty from the label (which they rarely see due to having to pay back the costs of the recording, distro, etc.) and getting $5-7 per CD they sell. You may pay more for a CD at show, but a lot more makes it to the band.
Anyways, as it stands, I’m a pirater…a thief if you like…If a band of mine gets popular and it happens to me, I will be the last to complain…at least people are excited about the music and will come to the shows. That’s the important thing.
Pirating is not stealing. Stealing is taking something away from someone. The band still has their music, I have it too…they’re not out anything they had before. So, it’s not technically stealing. Hell, I just preordered the album…why? Because that will help Fat Possum make more albums and will help Dinosaur, Jr. tour more. That’s why I buy albums. The music isn’t the important part for me, it’s supporting a band I believe in. The CD is just something I get as a parting gift. I’m all for downloading. It keeps people from making garbage and selling it as if it’s good.
Also, this album is TOTALLY worth buying.
